U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada > Toronto
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-25-2012, 01:18 PM
 
15 posts, read 22,575 times
Reputation: 16

Advertisements

I like living in Toronto. Live in cabbagetown, can walk everywhere, go to theatre, museums ( once a year ) walk around queen st west, go to the water front ( not beautiful ) but trying to appreciate what we have, hospitals and clinics are free, a lot of friends from all over the world ( brazilian, chinese, korean, canadian, american, british, japanese, russian, etc ) Toronto is a very livable city with everything is around me. Travel out of North America more than 3-4 times a year but always feel Toronto is somewhat better than some places. UGLY of course but who cares if the city beautiful if not livable. Spoke to my friend earlier. Toronto likes to compare itself to London and NYC, at least they really try and with big festivals we have in Toronto all year round, I get to enjoy them. It's better trying than not trying and just praising the past won't get a city anywhere but you have to look for future and I find Toronto is heading to the right way. for young people, I think Toronto is the place to be. More employers compare to some cities in Canada & USA and entertainment is so much better than a lot of cities around the world.

Been to Chicago at least 20 times in the last 3 years. It is beautiful city, diverse but not as exciting as toronto. downtown is cleaner and more organized, shopping is better, and better place for tourist but to live there I don't think I will give it a try. I rather try more exciting place like NYC or prettier place like San Francisco.

My friend from Dublin wanted to move to Toronto because he thinks Toronto is better than Dublin or Ediburgh. Grass is always greener ont he other side of the fences
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-25-2012, 06:21 PM
 
242 posts, read 472,801 times
Reputation: 233
Every person has their own reasons as to why they like a certain city more than another. I agree that the cost of living is less in Chicago. The cost of living is less in most of the US compared to Canada, this isn't just a Chicago benefit. If that's the argument, then every Canadian should pack their bags and move south. But realistically, I don't mind paying more. I have been to 35 US states! I own three condos in the US, have dozens of friends across several states, and travel there all the time. I am going to NYC in August, I was in Ohio and Pennsylvania last month, and in February and was in Florida last year. I've been to Chicago and it's a nice city. But I also have been to Toronto many times (I live 1 hour north) and I see many benefits about Canada as a country. I love Canada and what it stands for.

When it comes to Toronto, of course it has it's problems (what city doesn't). Compared to the development boom in Asia, no city in North America comes close. Calgary is growing based on the oil boom, Toronto is growing based on the fact it's a desired place to live that has many jobs in a variety of sectors. Immigrants still choose Toronto and the population reflects that. I love the feeling of Toronto, it's a feeling I can't explain in words. The city has so much to offer and has a different feel compared to Chicago. The entire base of my argument is that cost of living is not the only reason why someone chooses to live in a city. For instance, it would be much cheaper to live in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Houston, or Washington compared to Montreal. But I would take Montreal in a heartbeat over those cities, even with the colder winters. Why? Again it comes down to a feeling I get inside me when I'm there. Is it the french allure? the European feel? the openness and liberal laws? the city's love for partying and festivals? the food? I'm not sure but I imagine it's a combination of these.

I hate arguing but it can be hard to write down factual reasons why I would live in one city over another. In the end, people usually make a decision based on simply that.... how the city makes them feel. How does the city fit in with who they are as a person. Each person is unique and has little traits and characteristics in which certain aspects of a city can speak to. With me, Toronto speaks to more of those traits I define myself by. No hate on Chicago... if I was making a decision solely on cost of living with no other factors then yes I would live there. But there are other factors. Whether one agrees with them or not, that's up to them.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2012, 07:38 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 8,922,827 times
Reputation: 4771
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
Every person has their own reasons as to why they like a certain city more than another. I agree that the cost of living is less in Chicago. The cost of living is less in most of the US compared to Canada, this isn't just a Chicago benefit. If that's the argument, then every Canadian should pack their bags and move south. But realistically, I don't mind paying more. I have been to 35 US states! I own three condos in the US, have dozens of friends across several states, and travel there all the time. I am going to NYC in August, I was in Ohio and Pennsylvania last month, and in February and was in Florida last year. I've been to Chicago and it's a nice city. But I also have been to Toronto many times (I live 1 hour north) and I see many benefits about Canada as a country. I love Canada and what it stands for.

When it comes to Toronto, of course it has it's problems (what city doesn't). Compared to the development boom in Asia, no city in North America comes close. Calgary is growing based on the oil boom, Toronto is growing based on the fact it's a desired place to live that has many jobs in a variety of sectors. Immigrants still choose Toronto and the population reflects that. I love the feeling of Toronto, it's a feeling I can't explain in words. The city has so much to offer and has a different feel compared to Chicago. The entire base of my argument is that cost of living is not the only reason why someone chooses to live in a city. For instance, it would be much cheaper to live in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Houston, or Washington compared to Montreal. But I would take Montreal in a heartbeat over those cities, even with the colder winters. Why? Again it comes down to a feeling I get inside me when I'm there. Is it the french allure? the European feel? the openness and liberal laws? the city's love for partying and festivals? the food? I'm not sure but I imagine it's a combination of these.

I hate arguing but it can be hard to write down factual reasons why I would live in one city over another. In the end, people usually make a decision based on simply that.... how the city makes them feel. How does the city fit in with who they are as a person. Each person is unique and has little traits and characteristics in which certain aspects of a city can speak to. With me, Toronto speaks to more of those traits I define myself by. No hate on Chicago... if I was making a decision solely on cost of living with no other factors then yes I would live there. But there are other factors. Whether one agrees with them or not, that's up to them.
Just wondering if you have a favorite city/ or region of the U.S. ?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2012, 09:02 PM
 
242 posts, read 472,801 times
Reputation: 233
^ I love many parts of the US. San Francisco is awesome! I really like the feeling I get from there. So chill, relaxed, beautiful scenery, etc. I'm about to see NYC in August, I'm sure I'll love it there. LA is pretty sick, it's got some awesome neighborhoods. I really like the vibe of Miami (the warm weather, incredible beaches, shops, bars). I like the feel of Seattle as well.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2012, 10:36 PM
 
1,218 posts, read 2,363,882 times
Reputation: 1351
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
Every person has their own reasons as to why they like a certain city more than another. I agree that the cost of living is less in Chicago. The cost of living is less in most of the US compared to Canada, this isn't just a Chicago benefit. If that's the argument, then every Canadian should pack their bags and move south. But realistically, I don't mind paying more. I have been to 35 US states! I own three condos in the US, have dozens of friends across several states, and travel there all the time. I am going to NYC in August, I was in Ohio and Pennsylvania last month, and in February and was in Florida last year. I've been to Chicago and it's a nice city. But I also have been to Toronto many times (I live 1 hour north) and I see many benefits about Canada as a country. I love Canada and what it stands for.

When it comes to Toronto, of course it has it's problems (what city doesn't). Compared to the development boom in Asia, no city in North America comes close. Calgary is growing based on the oil boom, Toronto is growing based on the fact it's a desired place to live that has many jobs in a variety of sectors. Immigrants still choose Toronto and the population reflects that. I love the feeling of Toronto, it's a feeling I can't explain in words. The city has so much to offer and has a different feel compared to Chicago. The entire base of my argument is that cost of living is not the only reason why someone chooses to live in a city. For instance, it would be much cheaper to live in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Houston, or Washington compared to Montreal. But I would take Montreal in a heartbeat over those cities, even with the colder winters. Why? Again it comes down to a feeling I get inside me when I'm there. Is it the french allure? the European feel? the openness and liberal laws? the city's love for partying and festivals? the food? I'm not sure but I imagine it's a combination of these.

I hate arguing but it can be hard to write down factual reasons why I would live in one city over another. In the end, people usually make a decision based on simply that.... how the city makes them feel. How does the city fit in with who they are as a person. Each person is unique and has little traits and characteristics in which certain aspects of a city can speak to. With me, Toronto speaks to more of those traits I define myself by. No hate on Chicago... if I was making a decision solely on cost of living with no other factors then yes I would live there. But there are other factors. Whether one agrees with them or not, that's up to them.
No one has made the argument that the cost of living is the driving factor in moving to or from a city. You keep dwelling on this fact but I don’t recall anyone ever making this argument. It is an obvious consideration that one has to take into account because if a city costs a lot to live in, then it should be worth it on some level. If you hate having to argue why you like one place over another, then where’s the fun Travis3000?
Look, this feeling you have for Toronto is because it is where you are from. And with all due respect, you live 1 hour north of Toronto, which does not even qualify as living in Toronto. There is an emotional connection or “hometown bias” people have for their hometown. If you were from Seattle or Dallas or LA, I would expect the same feelings from locals. You’re family and friends are there, you know the place, and it is comfortable. But bringing this hometown bias into an analysis is not a fair approach and doesn’t add value to any discussion. And this is precisely why I challenged you because I feel this is what you do. There’s no point to continue bantering so let’s just drop it but I would encourage you to be more open minded and objective because it is possible for a city have as much or more to offer than Toronto, regardless of cost of living. You don’t really know a place until you live there and visiting doesn’t count. And if you haven’t been to NYC, have fun. I thought it was cool but didn’t love visiting it, but when I had the opportunity to move there for a summer, that’s when I feel in love with it.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2012, 08:16 AM
 
190 posts, read 568,824 times
Reputation: 219
America is cheaper than many countries on the surface. However, Americans make less, have less job opportunities available to them when comparing population size and education and skill levels, they end up paying more indirectly, such as much higher health care costs, inadequate, rickety public transportation except in old northeast cities, have even worse income gap problems, have less social mobility (believe second or third worst among OECD countries, Canada being among the best), have a more imbalanced education system that favors the few rich, that leaves many Americans in crushing college debt if they opt for college, even more so if going to grad school (required now to have the opportunity at halfway decent middle class jobs). America is great if you're rich, quite scary and depressing if you're barely making it, or not even that, as is the case for far too many right now.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2012, 08:26 AM
 
190 posts, read 568,824 times
Reputation: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
^ I love many parts of the US. San Francisco is awesome! I really like the feeling I get from there. So chill, relaxed, beautiful scenery, etc. I'm about to see NYC in August, I'm sure I'll love it there. LA is pretty sick, it's got some awesome neighborhoods. I really like the vibe of Miami (the warm weather, incredible beaches, shops, bars). I like the feel of Seattle as well.
SF is nice for a short time, but the city is small, full of homeless, more dangerous than NYC, and the weather is constantly the same (cool and very windy), a bit too cool to go out and enjoy the ocean. The hilly geography seems fun, but it makes riding a bike very tricky, and their public transportation system is inadequate. It, like much of California, also has quite a high unemployment rate right now, so unless you're a lucky professional with a nice paying career, you're not going to be able to enjoy all that's there, same with NYC (which I think is even worse in terms of having enough decent paying jobs to allow people to enjoy the expensive events that happen there). Most of the nice homes you see are likely out of your price range, though if you're rich, America, and possibly much of the world, is your oyster.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2012, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
5,801 posts, read 6,010,568 times
Reputation: 3125
Has the pathetically weak dollar contributed to the fact that hotels and many other things in Toronto are much more expensive than they are in Chicago, or here in Los Angeles where I live? My parents are from Chicago and I have tons of relatives throughout the city and suburbs, so I know the area very well.

The two currencies are within a penny or so of each other, and that's also been the case for several years.

When I first visited your fabulous city in 1975 (anybody remember the Westbury Hotel, which has been a Courtyard by Marriott for years), Canadian hotels were much cheaper, but that's no longer the case.

Toronto remains a much safer city than Chicago AFAIK, and that's been the case for decades, given the nonstop carnage going on in Chicagoland this year.

I understand that a couple of luxurious new hotels are on the way according to a very complimentary profile on Toronto in the travel section of the LA Times recently.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-17-2012, 08:00 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
271 posts, read 498,547 times
Reputation: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv101 View Post
Has the pathetically weak dollar contributed to the fact that hotels and many other things in Toronto are much more expensive than they are in Chicago, or here in Los Angeles where I live? My parents are from Chicago and I have tons of relatives throughout the city and suburbs, so I know the area very well.

The two currencies are within a penny or so of each other, and that's also been the case for several years.

When I first visited your fabulous city in 1975 (anybody remember the Westbury Hotel, which has been a Courtyard by Marriott for years), Canadian hotels were much cheaper, but that's no longer the case.

Toronto remains a much safer city than Chicago AFAIK, and that's been the case for decades, given the nonstop carnage going on in Chicagoland this year.

I understand that a couple of luxurious new hotels are on the way according to a very complimentary profile on Toronto in the travel section of the LA Times recently.
Our cost of living on day-to-day essentials is higher because of our relative lack of population density once you get a couple hundred clicks from the border. It's more costly to set up distribution centers and the like. Toronto's property crime rates are in line with Chicago's and are actually quite high, but violent crime rates are probably many, many, many times lower.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-17-2012, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
164 posts, read 340,863 times
Reputation: 97
Default you are over genrealizing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikJohnsson View Post
America is cheaper than many countries on the surface. However, Americans make less, have less job opportunities available to them when comparing population size and education and skill levels, they end up paying more indirectly, such as much higher health care costs, inadequate, rickety public transportation except in old northeast cities, have even worse income gap problems, have less social mobility (believe second or third worst among OECD countries, Canada being among the best), have a more imbalanced education system that favors the few rich, that leaves many Americans in crushing college debt if they opt for college, even more so if going to grad school (required now to have the opportunity at halfway decent middle class jobs). America is great if you're rich, quite scary and depressing if you're barely making it, or not even that, as is the case for far too many right now.
What are you comparing here? I completely disagree with you. Americans and Canadians make similar average wages. Canada wages are probably currently marginally higher because the loonie is now at parity with the USD; just look at the number of Canadians shopping across the border taking advantage of the much lower retail prices on the American side. It is quite sad that the Canadian government, in a guise to protect the few Canadian elite businessmen by mandating Canadian ownership, is allowing the Canadian consumer to get gouged.

Toronto wages, similar to NYC wages, need to be higher than most regions in Canada and the USA to offset the higher cost of living. Jobs are probably more diverse and available in any large Canadian and American city, but Toronto has unemployment figures comparable to most other large US cities. I don’t think it will be easier for the average person to find a job in Toronto than say NYC, Los Angeles, Houston, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago, Seattle, Denver, Philadelphia, Boston, etc..

That being said, the higher cost of living to the higher salary does not add up in Toronto. Every time I am in Toronto I feel like I am getting gouged. All durable goods are more expensive by far (13% sales tax.. ouch!!! vs 7-8% in the USA) and the online shopping experience in Canada is dismal compared to the USA. It only gets worse for the people that live there. Rent is at least double, and you can forget owning a home unless you want to get leveraged with massive debt obligation and less favorable loan terms compared to the United States (United States offers 30 year fixed rate loans and you can default without recourse – just 10 years of being unable to get credit but you don’t need to repay the mortgage holder to make them whole). There are such high expectations for real estate, even the seedy areas of Toronto are selling at crazy prices.

Groceries are tad bit more but not expensive enough to make me complain. Bell/Rogers/Telus remind me of the crappy big 4 in the USA (T-Mobile/ATT/Verizon/Sprint). The only good deal seems to be hydro, which is a result of the vast amount of hydro power that Canada produces.

Now alcoholic beverages and car insurance are 2 additional rip-offs that I can think of. Alcohol is controlled by the LCBO… just a complete sham. Car insurance is 2x to 3x what is charged in the USA and that is with more car crime in the USA. Rumor has it that there is a lot of false insurance claims in Toronto because the state mandated accident benefits are quite generous.

I believe that property taxes are currently lower in Toronto than in most parts of the USA, but the reason for that is that Toronto makes a lot of money on a land transfer tax. What will happen when development stops and property values decline? I guarantee you that city services will be cut or they will raise taxes.

Higher education is becoming absurdly expensive in the United States, and Canada has the same trend. The only exception to that rule is Quebec, but they get massive equalization payments from the rest of Canada. Even with the student protests, expect to see tuition rise in Quebec in the future. Job opportunities after college in the USA and Canada depend on what you are studying and the demand for those skills. Also, Ontario’s economy has not been so hot lately. Once the real estate bubble bursts, than you will know if there is anything underpinning the economy.

Health care in the USA is top-notch if you can afford it. Canada has better universal health care than the United States, but you forget that almost 50% of Americans are covered in some way through Medicare, Medicaid, Army, etc. This distorts the market and is the main reason for healthcare inflation, so personally I would like to see it scrapped. Those who work for large private companies are also usually covered by their employer. It is the people who have no access to government healthcare or employer provided insurance that are making the news for getting royally screwed. So, as long as you are covered, life is good. So why is it that some of the best IT startups are coming out of the USA. Canada already has a built in advantage, because the health risk is assumed by the state?

Canada also has better daycare and maternity leave.

Your argument about public transit does not pass muster. Cars and car insurance are cheap in the USA and cars are also getting more fuel efficient. Therefore, most people will drive. The only exception to that rule is NYC. Most US cities also have ample public transit. Some US cities are also building additional public transit (Salt Lake City, Minneapolis, etc.) It is not as if TTC is the most amazing system ever with a great network (NYC, Tokyo, London, Paris, etc. own that). TTC is quite limited unless you work/live downtown. There is not even a connection to Pearson. The Gardiner is falling apart and the 401 is the most jammed road in North America because the 407 tolls are excessively high and the 407 was sold off to a private company for a very long time with rules that Toronto cannot build nearby roads to compete with it.

Glad that you can thump your chest that OECD is voting Canada the greatest place to live, but statistics can tell whatever story you want them to tell. Canadians are more indebted then the Americans were before the housing crash. What do you think the result of that will be? Now that the Canadian government has tightened up the mortgage and real estate activity is slowing, will soon find out how great Toronto really is.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada > Toronto

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top