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Old 08-23-2012, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Cambridge, MA/London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc View Post
A. NYC
B. Chic, LA, SF
C. Boston, Toronto, DC, Philly, Seattle
D. Dallas, Houston, ATL, MTL, Van, Miami, Portland
This is pretty much exactly how I see it as well. You can make an argument that DC is should be ranked higher than Toronto as well though. The top 7 though is where Toronto should fit on a global scale.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
This is pretty much exactly how I see it as well. You can make an argument that DC is should be ranked higher than Toronto as well though. The top 7 though is where Toronto should fit on a global scale.
Thanks. There is an element of subjectivity but most reasonable people will agree with the general buckets. There are valid reasons to put DC above Toronto. But I personally give Toronto a higher ranking because it is more well balanced overall as a city. I can even understand how someone can rank Toronto above Boston and claim 5th in N.America, but since I know Boston well, I understand how it punches well above its weight with its world class institutions and amenitities. I wouldn't expect the Average Joe on the street to understand.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc View Post
Thanks. There is an element of subjectivity but most reasonable people will agree with the general buckets. There are valid reasons to put DC above Toronto. But I personally give Toronto a higher ranking because it is more well balanced overall as a city. I can even understand how someone can rank Toronto above Boston and claim 5th in N.America, but since I know Boston well, I understand how it punches well above its weight with its world class institutions and amenitities. I wouldn't expect the Average Joe on the street to understand.
The fact that it is the biggest city in its country does add something to Toronto's lustre. The majority of Canada's national organizations tend to be based there, to name just one example.

If you are "doing" (in the broadest sense possible of the term) just one place in Canada, you are probably "doing" Toronto.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Cambridge, MA/London, UK
3,742 posts, read 4,629,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc View Post
Thanks. There is an element of subjectivity but most reasonable people will agree with the general buckets. There are valid reasons to put DC above Toronto. But I personally give Toronto a higher ranking because it is more well balanced overall as a city. I can even understand how someone can rank Toronto above Boston and claim 5th in N.America, but since I know Boston well, I understand how it punches well above its weight with its world class institutions and amenitities. I wouldn't expect the Average Joe on the street to understand.
There is some flexibility and room for debate after the elite group of (NYC, LA, Chicago and SF) So no argument from me there. As you I have lived in both Toronto and Boston (Toronto for a longer period of time than Boston) and understand how influential it is on a global scale. Much of that influence though is known to people who are either work in certain industries or are savvy enough to understand.

Any city that is the Higher Education, Healthcare and Biotech capital of the world (not just its own country) should always be considered a major player globally. Its impossible to argue those points.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
Any city that is the Higher Education, Healthcare and Biotech capital of the world (not just its own country) should always be considered a major player globally. Its impossible to argue those points.
In addition....Boston also excels in Financial Services (3rd best Buy-Side city on planet earth!) and in Venture Capital/Startups (2nd to Silicon Valley and one of the best in the world). Boston also offers arguably the most beautiful architecture in N.America, so much more history than nearly all other cities in N.America, a Sport scene that is unrivaled, beautiful parks and rivers in the city, very strong cultural institutions that are among the best in the world like the Boston Symphony Orchestra, and amazing gettaways on the coast with Cape Cod, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, etc. with NYC, Philly, Maine and Rhode Island also so close, the amentities are outstanding as well. The city is also one of character and tradition, I can only count 2 McDonalds in the city proper off the top of my head (I'm sure there are more but you rarely see them). It also arguably has the most intelligent and healthiest populace of any city. It lacks diversity, no doubt, which Toronto has, but so much too offer in other categories.

It's amazing when you leave your comfort zone and experience other places, your perspective changes. If I had never left Toronto, I would have never thought Boston would have more to offer as a city.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by johnathanc View Post

A. NYC
B. Chic, LA, SF
C. Boston, Toronto, DC, Philly, Seattle
D. Dallas, Houston, ATL, MTL, Van, Miami, Portland
Seems a fair list to me. I assume SF would means the entire Bay area. Seattle may be in D as well?
If NYC is a 10, then B is probably 7, while C is 5, quantitatively speaking.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
The Toronto subforum is populated by Toronto haters who go out of their way to make the city seems like some sort of subpar, or even downright terrible place. Pay them no mind, outside of this subforum most people think Toronto is a great city.
also by those who go all out of their way pretending NYC and Toronto have much in common, or the latter is anything close to the former.

Toronto is definitely not "subpar". It is a great city. It is just not as elite as you pretend that it is.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The fact that it is the biggest city in its country does add something to Toronto's lustre. The majority of Canada's national organizations tend to be based there, to name just one example.

If you are "doing" (in the broadest sense possible of the term) just one place in Canada, you are probably "doing" Toronto.
I agree with you on some level. Being a first city is a huge advantage for Toronto. But the reason I personally can't put Toronto up with Chicago on this basis is because it is a first city in a country of 34m. It is also a city focused on Ontario/Canada with little inflence in any category on a worldwide basis. There are no true global companies or world institutions or unique city structures/landscapes situated in Toronto that I can think of to make it competitives with Chicago, SF or LA in my mind. Doesn't mean it is not a great city to live and I "hate" it but IMO it punches below its weight, especially for being a first city. This should be a competitive advantage to exploit but it hasn't been. Even anyone outside of the GTA (i.e the Rest of Canada) doesn't support the city. I think the city can do so much better although many may disagree with me. Depends on who you are and what your perspectives and values are I guess.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Seems a fair list to me. I assume SF would means the entire Bay area. Seattle may be in D as well?
If NYC is a 10, then B is probably 7, while C is 5, quantitatively speaking.
SF is the whole Bay area. I'm sure Seattle can be moved down with little disagreement from most, I acknowledged that I was on the fence with that one when I was typing.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:15 AM
 
3,096 posts, read 4,548,295 times
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Originally Posted by johnathanc View Post
Nobody hates on Toronto for no reason on this forum, some people are just more realistic about what it is. Both it's good and bad, just like anywhere else. Some people blow the city up to be some utopian dream that is "unmatched" and something truly unique to the world and never acknowledge anything negative about it - how can you take such an opinion seriously. It is not balanced, it is a positional opinion and you will invite counter arguments every time. The fact that nobody in Canada cares for Toronto that much should be evidence that it is not the greatest city out there. It's a lot better than they think mind you (and the best city in Canada to live IMO) but because it has not won the hearts of people across the country as Canada's first city says something.

Basically, as I see it in North America (and I hate having to always compare but this is the thread), this is how I would rank cities in terms of what they have to offer (not just from visiting but for actually living). I am a human so I have preferences on what I like (e.g. I don't need to live near a beach, MTL is fun to visit but has lower living standards and difficult for an Anglo) but I lived in Canada and the US and have lived/visited all cities I am ranking here:

A. NYC
B. Chic, LA, SF
C. Boston, Toronto, DC, Philly, Seattle
D. Dallas, Houston, ATL, MTL, Van, Miami, Portland

The differering viewpoints in this forum revolve around where Toronto fits in. Some Torontonians think B. and some even dare say A. After living in different cities, I think its a strong C, probably right after Boston. And you can be a great city and be in D. as well you know as it's all based on preferences. I think some can't shake their hometown bias. Someone from Miami or Dallas may argue for C. or B. status as well because they are intimate and comfortable with their hometowns, but rarely would they compare themselves to NYC like some people compare Toronto to in these forums.
Any Torontonian who thinks it belongs in A) is delusional, its a great city but sorry not a world class one. A large population does not a world class city make.

Last edited by darrensmooth; 08-23-2012 at 11:24 AM..
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