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I read this article and while it does suck that blacks do get 'carded' often and at a higher rate, the other two-thirds of the people being carded are non-black even though they don't commit even a fraction of the crime that blacks do in the GTA.
Also I disagree with this part of his article:
This is the polite, sophisticated racism that strangles the spirits of black Torontonians. We are asked to accept a world where police classify us not as criminals, but as people who must be monitored in the name of public safety, as if there is a difference. We are asked to give up our legal rights and human dignity to make those around us feel more comfortable.
It makes it sound like the police are out to get blacks and to watch over them for no apparent reason when in fact everyone knows that its because the crime and murder rate is so much higher among blacks compared to non-blacks in the city. Just look at the number of blacks in the past few weeks in Toronto that have been murdered or wounded by gunfire or other violence and come back and tell me that blacks don't need more policing to keep black crime in check? How many non-blacks have been murdered in that same timeframe? None that I can recall.
So what do blacks really want these days I'm not even sure anymore because they keep changing their minds. On the one hand they want the crime and murder among them to stop or at least be drastically reduced, yet when police try to do their job and stop crime, blacks come out and get angry that cops keep profiling them. So which is it then? Do blacks want real change or not?
As Fusion mentioned there is not evidence that this is making any community safer. How anyone could support a policy that disproportionately targets one race and blacks who have no criminal record is beyond me.
I could somewhat accept the numbers if they were only high in neighborhoods or districts with large black populations. The issue is that blacks are carded at a higher rate than any other race in Toronto in EVERY SINGLE DISTRICT. So aggressive policing in black neighborhoods with high crime is one issue, but how exactly do you explain black being carded aggressively in predominantly white districts? That is the point where your reasoning falls flat on its face.
I've been a fan of Desmond Cole since he first ran for city council against Adam Vaughan in 2006 in Trinity-Spadina (I had a lot of good choices that year!) I also tune in to his radio show when I can.
We're very, very likely to get a Black police chief to succeed the outgoing Bill Blair, who was a "reformer" compared to McCormick and Fantino, but really disgraced himself on this file (and the G20 too).
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
My money is on Peter Sloly.
The symbolic importance of having a black police chief is not lost on me at all. I think symbolically it would be a step in the right direction for the city. The same reasons I felt proud casting my ballot for Obama and Deval Patrick in the same year are the exact same reasons I would be proud to see either of these two men named Chief.
At the same time I am not without reservations. The fact that these two candidates have held high ranking positions within the police department while all these carding measures and practices were in place is troubling. The question is were their voices frozen out? or were they going along with the department the entire time? Also having a black police chief alone does not mean that there will be significant reforms. Take NYC for example. That is a city that has had multiple black police chiefs, but arguably the worst racial profiling practices in the country.
Finally colour/race alone does not mean you sympathize with your community. Our only black city council member Michael Thompson is a perfect example. This is the only voice we have in city council and he was the one that stood next to Julian Fantino and defended racial profiling practices throughout the city. That was disappointing to observe to say the least. In Thompson defense his position on the topic has evolved over the years, but those memories are still front and center in peoples minds.
Thank you for posting these articles. The reservations held in the 2nd piece are the same reservations I stated in my post above. It troubles me that these two men have either presided over divisions known for police violence or are on record supporting "carding". I would much rather have a police chief of any colour, race, gender, nationality that comes out against carding, than men who have supported these practices over the years.
Is there any evidence that carding is making us safer? I highly doubt that.. There are other communities in Canada with large black populations are they more violent or crime ridden than those in Toronto.. I highly doubt that so essentially the practice is extremely divisive, isn't proven to be doing anything to make our city safer and is a good example I think of the Police overextending their mandate and impeding on rights of citizens. I'm astonished this practice hasn't been completely shot down yet.... Looks totally ripe for a Supreme court level lawsuit..
I don't know if carding is part of the answer or is actually effective. What I do know is that blacks do indeed require more police attention for all the crime and murder they continually commit and that their cries of being profiled are dumb since police will of course place more attention on high crime areas and the people who commit the most offenses.
And yes blacks in Toronto aren't the only ones that are violent as I'm pretty sure that every major black population in Canada has higher crime rates than non-blacks in those areas. The thing is we may never know how high because of how everyone with access to that data is doing their best to cover things up by not mentioning the ethnicity of the people involved in each incident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands
As Fusion mentioned there is not evidence that this is making any community safer. How anyone could support a policy that disproportionately targets one race and blacks who have no criminal record is beyond me.
I could somewhat accept the numbers if they were only high in neighborhoods or districts with large black populations. The issue is that blacks are carded at a higher rate than any other race in Toronto in EVERY SINGLE DISTRICT. So aggressive policing in black neighborhoods with high crime is one issue, but how exactly do you explain black being carded aggressively in predominantly white districts? That is the point where your reasoning falls flat on its face.
As I said above I don't know if carding is part of the answer, but clearly blacks need more attention and need to be watched much more closely than any other race/ethnic group of people in this city and I think the police are doing a good job of being proactive in stopping black crime from getting out of hand as it has in many American cities.
Just today there was a double stabbing and while I assumed a black suspect was involved, the news didn't mention the race of the suspect and it wasn't until they showed the back of a police cruiser with a person inside did we see that it was surprise, surprise a black male. And just now as I'm writing this post there's mention of a shooting in the Jane/Driftwood area which probably means another incident involving blacks. See how bad things are among them?
As for blacks being carded at higher rates everywhere in the GTA, it makes sense because Toronto isn't really a segregated city which means everyone is free to go where ever they want, which means blacks can be carded anywhere and not just in neighborhoods that have higher concentrations of blacks. Also there aren't really any black neighborhoods in the GTA, just neighborhoods that have a higher number of blacks than in other areas. They make up only about 7% of Toronto/GTA's 5.5 million population so even places like Jane and Finch are probably 50% or more non-black.
I think Toronto is VERY lucky that most of the city's 400,000 or so blacks aren't all living in one area otherwise like in most US cities that area would've become a violent craphole a long time ago which non-blacks wouldn't ever want to venture into for fear of becoming a victim of crime and the blacks living there would be experiencing MUCH higher crime and murder rates than the high rates they have now. So both blacks and non-blacks are lucky in this regard.
I don't know if carding is part of the answer or is actually effective. What I do know is that blacks do indeed require more police attention for all the crime and murder they continually commit and that their cries of being profiled are dumb since police will of course place more attention on high crime areas and the people who commit the most offenses.
And yes blacks in Toronto aren't the only ones that are violent as I'm pretty sure that every major black population in Canada has higher crime rates than non-blacks in those areas. The thing is we may never know how high because of how everyone with access to that data is doing their best to cover things up by not mentioning the ethnicity of the people involved in each incident.
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Carding is simply not the answer regardless of where concentration of crime is happening relative to race/ethnicity/skin colour. The very practice is presumptive and is a violation of our rights as citizens... You're dancing around that as far as I'm concerned.. Most people aren't criminals.. Even if a disproportionate amount of crime is perpetrated by members of the black community - most blacks are NOT criminals but many are treated as such by this practice.. Its doing more damage than good and its an affront on the decency and innocence of most individuals regardless of what they look like and it is something that should make us all outraged.. Don't assume Max that this practice or what it is rooted in won't impact you or those dear to you because you are closer to snow.. This violation of our rights as citizens goes way beyond racial matters and strikes at the very heart of what we value in this country.
I will address Max's ignorant post at a later time.
Just wanted to mention the results of last nights vote. The Toronto Police Board voted to uphold the revised carding policy. So a victory for folks like Max and a loss for the community.
Only one member of Toronto City Council showed up to push back and oppose the vote. Seems like we have found an advocate in Councillor Shelley Carroll. This is why I speak out against lack of representation in city council. Imagine if the majority of city council and the Mayor pushed back against this policy? Chances are we would have seen a much different result. I guess it doesn't register on most members radar since this policy has a very slim chance of affecting them or their children directly due to their race.
Hopefully next mayoral election someone is elected that finds this issue important, until then business as usual for the TPS.
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