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I would hope this isn't true, but sometimes I wonder if there is an underlying resentment of Westerners. There are a lot of of Asians in my building who won't even make eye contact or speak if I say hello in the hallways or elevator. Of course, many do, but I've never had people just ignore a basic pleasantry before. I don't care, I will always nod or say "hey" when coming face to face with a fellow resident.
I know, big city, yadda, yadda, yadda, but it takes considerable effort to deliberately ignore someone who has just spoken to you. Not used to feeling like I'm completely invisible or not worthy of the most basic acknowledgment. I'll admit, this has me feeling like my business wouldn't be wanted in some of the local eateries, which would be a shame as we are looking forward to sampling many of them. After all, this is our home and neighborhood, too.
If this menu thing is true, I think it's outrageous. Imagine the outcry if the situation were reversed!
They choose to ignore it because they know such a basic pleasantry is meaningless. It will always be a "hi, what's up", "the weather is great", "have a great day" kind of talk. You do it 1000 times and still know nothing about each other. They believe from their experience you are not interested in being their friends, will never ask them to your house when there is a party, and will never help them when needed. They would rather spend time with people who actually think they are important, with smile or not. It is not just Asian, go to Germany and they do the same. The rarely put on a smile to strangers for no obvious reason just to show they are "nice". Nice means being really friendly and offering help when need, not offering usless smile and pleasantry.
Saying hi or smile to a stranger is a North American thing. It sounds police and nice but in the end it really means absolutely nothing and does nobody any good. Asian and Europeans usually ignore strangers without eye contact because it is a waste of time. What's the point of smiling and talking to someone about weather when you have zero interest in knowing more about him?
as to the hidden menu thing, as if a typical Canadian menu with their burgers, fries and salads has anything valuable to hide. Outrage? I bet 95% of the Chinese population in Toronto couldn't care less. In the end, it is still variations of burgers, fries, salads, steaks.
I would hope this isn't true, but sometimes I wonder if there is an underlying resentment of Westerners. There are a lot of of Asians in my building who won't even make eye contact or speak if I say hello in the hallways or elevator. Of course, many do, but I've never had people just ignore a basic pleasantry before. I don't care, I will always nod or say "hey" when coming face to face with a fellow resident.
I know, big city, yadda, yadda, yadda, but it takes considerable effort to deliberately ignore someone who has just spoken to you. Not used to feeling like I'm completely invisible or not worthy of the most basic acknowledgment. I'll admit, this has me feeling like my business wouldn't be wanted in some of the local eateries, which would be a shame as we are looking forward to sampling many of them. After all, this is our home and neighborhood, too.
I don't think they resent you. It's due to a few things:
-They don't know you and don't feel the need to socialize with people in a language/culture in which they are not as comfortable with. They have power in numbers therefore have their own social networks which are just easier for them to stick with. The more you have of one culture, the more they will have the option of sticking with their own. I've never been a fan of the active promotion of multiculturalism because of this.
-It's also partially cultural, I'm no expert in Asian culture and stand to be corrected but I've been to Hong Kong and I went to school with lots of Asians in UFT for undergrad and they don't necessarily say "hi" and "chit chat" to people they don't know. Some do but most don't in my experience, especially new immigrants in a new country. But if you get to know them, they open up and are super friendly. You just need to make the first move sometimes.
-Also, it's partly a local thing. I've lived in a few cities in Canada and the US and Toronto is by far the most reserved socially when it comes to people interacting with people they don't know. People are just more introverted compared to Americans and TO more standoffish compared to other parts of Canada in general. It takes time but once you get to know people, they will be good friends just like anywhere else.
Last edited by johnathanc; 05-15-2013 at 07:46 AM..
They choose to ignore it because they know such a basic pleasantry is meaningless...
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc
I don't thing they resent you. It's due to a few things...
Sorry, didn't mean to take things off track. I understand about the "small talk" thing, and I am the first one who tries to avoid it at all costs. I am also one who prefers to move along without interacting with anyone. But it just seems strange to ignore someone who has already nodded or spoken to you, which is something I could never do, if only to be polite. And believe me, in my case it goes no further than a quick nod or a mumbled "hey". My personality is very reserved and quiet, almost to the point of social anxiety at times, but I do feel it is natural to be somewhat friendly to neighbors and those who share my space.
Hard not to take it as some form of insult, even if not intended. I imagine in many cases I have just caught someone off guard or they are very wary of strangers. Just a bit of an adjustment; I'm sure this city will have me battle-hardened in no time.
People are just more introverted compared to Americans and TO more standoffish compared to other parts of Canada in general. It takes time but once you get to know people, they will be good friends just like anywhere else.
the funny part lies here: most of these people who make small talks have absolutely no interest in getting to know those people they make small talks to.
For me personally, if you don't want to be my friend, just don't make such meaningless small talks with me about weather or baseball because it is a waste of my time.
I would hope this isn't true, but sometimes I wonder if there is an underlying resentment of Westerners.!
I don't know about resentment of Westerners, although I have found it can be difficult to make friends with some Chinese. However, at the same time, I've become great friends with some of my Chinese students, have been invited to their homes, have had them over to my home for dinner and coffee/tea, and have been invited out with them countless times. Same with my Korean students. So I don't know why some younger Chinese (for example, students at U of T - there are tons of Chinese students there but during the five yars I studied there I didn't make friends or even talk to a single Chinese student and noticed that they almost exclusively associated with other Chinese) don't seem to want to have friendships with Canadians.
As far as there being "secret" menus in Chinese and Korean restaurants, I know this is true. Of course, the menus are not exactly secret, they're just written in Chinese or Korean (or not written at all - just known to those who know the cuisine) so someone who doesn't read the language or know the specific dishes will never know. One time I went out to eat at a nondescript little Korean restaurant near Yonge and Bloor with my students and they proceeded to order tons of dishes of the most delicious food - I mean everything from kimchi and other marinated veggie "appetizers" to about a half-dozen main dishes and dessert plus two bottles of beer. I was thinking the bill was going to be pretty hefty, but in the end we each paid like eight bucks for the entire meal and there were only six or seven of us. That means all that food and two beers each cost only about $50 plus tax and tip. No written menu was presented and my students ordered entirely in Korean. I've never had Korean food like that since.
I also had two similar experiences with some Chinese students, where items that weren't even on the menu were ordered (and were absolutely delicious) and one time we got a free dish with a fresh-cooked lobster for ordering more than six items - this special was posted on the wall, but only in Cantonese. Both times, the ordering of food was in Chinese (once in Cantonese, another time in Mandarin at a northern Chinese, Beijing-style restaurant). Both times I was given the opportunity to choose a dish or two from the English menu, but everything else was ordered from an unseen Chinese menu. When I asked my students where on the menu the excellent dishes they had ordered could be found on the English menu, they explained that those items aren't on the English menu because Chinese restaurant proprietors assume that Canadians don't want to eat that kind of amazingly delicious food
I have been to Malaysia a couple of times ... and you are right, Malaysian food is really good. However, I think that much of what Malaysians cook/ eat is HIGHLY influenced by Indian food (North and South).
Sadly there are no authentic Malaysian restaurants in Toronto (or I haven't found any)
I think there may be some Indian influence in Malaysian cuisine, but I think the primary influence is Chinese cuisine, seeing as how many Malaysian citizens are ethnic Chinese. I believe the food is a mix of Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, Southeast Asian (Thai, Vietnamese, Cambodian), even Filipino, plus native Malaysian culinary creations that have developed over the years.
Malaysia is one of those countries (similar to neighbouring Singapore) that has a fairly small native population, and has been inundated over the centuries with immigrants from nearby nations (especially China), as well as being colonized by bigger powers now and then. As a result, their culture and cuisine is a fusion of the entire region. And from the sounds of it, Malay people chose the best, most delicious dishes, put their own spin on them and have developed some of the most delicious and diverse (if lesser known) cuisines on the planet.
I'm going to search for a good Malaysian restaurant in the city and report back if and when I find it and have a chance to eat there and confirm that it's worth a visit.
Here's the best result I found from my research. Turns out one of the best-rated spots is close to where I'm living these days:
the funny part lies here: most of these people who make small talks have absolutely no interest in getting to know those people they make small talks to.
For me personally, if you don't want to be my friend, just don't make such meaningless small talks with me about weather or baseball because it is a waste of my time.
I think, in many cases, a friendship starts with a small talk. How do you even avoid a small talk if you don't know a person? Do you just always approach a person you don't know and offer him/her your friendship?
I think, in many cases, a friendship starts with a small talk. How do you even avoid a small talk if you don't know a person? Do you just always approach a person you don't know and offer him/her your friendship?
true in theory.
but how many Asian friends have you made from such casual small talk (not from a friend)?
the funny part lies here: most of these people who make small talks have absolutely no interest in getting to know those people they make small talks to.
For me personally, if you don't want to be my friend, just don't make such meaningless small talks with me about weather or baseball because it is a waste of my time.
On the hand, some people genuinely like to be friendly and build comrade with people they don't know in their immediate area, be it with people at work or building or public place. It's a cultural trait that is stronger in some places than others and there's nothing particularly wrong with it. Some want to engage in small talk to see if there are commonalities that could lead to a more meaningful friendship as well. But I agree that is someone if "fake" and just making "small talk" with no real interest whatsoever in the person and its obviously not genuine then I'd rather not waste my time.
On the hand, some people genuinely like to be friendly and build comrade with people they don't know in their immediate area, be it with people at work or building or public place. It's a cultural trait that is stronger in some places than others and there's nothing particularly wrong with it. Some want to engage in small talk to see if there are commonalities that could lead to a more meaningful friendship as well. But I agree that is someone if "fake" and just making "small talk" with no real interest whatsoever in the person and its obviously not genuine then I'd rather not waste my time.
95% of the cases it is the fake uninterested talk you mentioned.
Asia just doesn't have this nice fake small talk culture. If not really interested, Asians simply leave strangers alone. Smiling at strangers is an odd thing to do too. There is nothing wrong or awkward with not talking to each other about the stupid weather in the elevator.
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