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Im a student from Brazil and Im thinking about going to Toronto to study english.. I know it must be much safer comparing to my country but I worry a little about going into a bad area, guetto, etc.. So, what areas should I avoid in Toronto? Is it safe in downtown?
What about walking on the street at night? Is it safe to do it? Ive heard that most people in Toronto live in the suburbs, far from downtown. So, if I want to go out at night, to a pub, bar, club, Id probably have to go to downtown by bus or subway, and go back the same way. Is it safe to go back home by bus/subway/on foot at 2, 3, 4 oclock in the morning?
As a Toronto resident, I find downtown Toronto quite safe to walk around. Obviously there are some pockets/streets I'd prefer to avoid if possible.
Subways stop running around 1am, but some buses run 18 - 22 hours a night, mostly on main streets. Bars/clubs close I think around 2am (I'm getting old).
Many people live in Toronto proper, not just visit from the suburbs so that's an exaggeration.
I personally feel much safer in downtown at night where there are lots of people out and about, taxis going by, pizza places open, etc then in the suburbs where there are fewer people and much more open space for bad things to happen to me. In fact it's very rare for violent crime to happen in the city, whereas when there's a shooting it usually doesn't happen in the downtown core but more likely in the suburbs. Not to say it doesn't happen, but not as often. You'll be fine.
Im a student from Brazil and Im thinking about going to Toronto to study english.. I know it must be much safer comparing to my country but I worry a little about going into a bad area, guetto, etc.. So, what areas should I avoid in Toronto? Is it safe in downtown?
What about walking on the street at night? Is it safe to do it? Ive heard that most people in Toronto live in the suburbs, far from downtown. So, if I want to go out at night, to a pub, bar, club, Id probably have to go to downtown by bus or subway, and go back the same way. Is it safe to go back home by bus/subway/on foot at 2, 3, 4 oclock in the morning?
Thanks in advance!
Toronto is very safe. Period. if you have some street smarts and have lived in the city before, you will be fine.
What you heard about most people living in the suburbs is not true. How can most Toronto residents live in the suburbs? Toronto is a city that is separate from the suburbs. The city itself has 2.7 million people, I think. They are spread out between Old Toronto, and the amalgamated regions (or "boroughs") of York, East York, Etobicoke, Scarborough, and North York. These amalgamated regions are generally not as densely populated as Old Toronto, but are still very urban, and are connected to the downtown by the TTC via subway or bus.
oh also I forgot to mention, girls here don't like your people. But that won't affect your safety, just how much you enjoy it here. (joke, before I get flamed scroll through other postings)
TOkidd, most of the City of Toronto is thoroughly suburban. Most of Etobicoke, Scarborough, North York, etc. has more in common with Mississauga as far as building density and urbanity than it does with downtown Toronto. The vast majority of GTA residents live in suburban areas.
TOkidd, most of the City of Toronto is thoroughly suburban. Most of Etobicoke, Scarborough, North York, etc. has more in common with Mississauga as far as building density and urbanity than it does with downtown Toronto. The vast majority of GTA residents live in suburban areas.
The population of the GTA (including the city of Toronto) is 6.04 million, of which Toronto makes up nearly half. So the vast majority of GTA residents do not live in the suburbs. Just over half do. The rest live in Toronto Proper.
As to whether or not the former municipalities of Etobicoke, North York, and Scarborough are more suburban or urban in character, I think that's a pretty subjective thing. I personally think they are half-way between urban and suburban. They certainly not like Mississauga or Brampton; but at the same time, they are not as urban as Old Toronto. I think it really depends on where you are, and what your definition of urban is. For example, there are many areas in North York that I find to be much more urban than suburban: the area around Yonge, Keele, Jane, Bathurst, Wilson, Don Mills, and parts of Finch all have population densities that are far much higher than any suburb, and a far more urban character. Even the residential areas west of Yonge are laid out on a grid system, and built much denser than you would ever find in a suburb. As for Etobicoke, the southernmost part, between the Lake and the Gardiner, is much more urban than suburban. Ditto around streets like Bloor and the Queensway. With Scarborough, the area south of the 401 is particularly dense and urban in character, especially around Kingston Rd. Eglinton, Kennedy, Victoria Park, Danforth Rd., McCowan, and several residential neighbourhoods. Also, these "buroughs" all have access to the TTC and rapid transit, providing a direct link to the downtown. Their bus routes are busy, and you don't have to wait more than a few minutes to catch one. All of these details are important. While I agree that these three "buroughs" are not fully urban to the extent of Old Toronto, I cannot agree that they are fully suburban either. Furthermore, as the infill of these areas continues, and more rapid transit lines are extended into these "inner suburbs", they will continue to become denser and more urban in character.
With the former municipalities of York and East York, I don't think we even need to debate that these are far more like Old Toronto than like the suburbs, or even Scarborough, North York, and Etobicoke, which are somewhere between urban and suburban.
Then there is Old Toronto itself, where about 30% of the population of the city lives. I think we can both agree that most of Old Toronto is very urban in character and population density.
The point is that the OP seems to be under the impression that Toronto is a city like Houston, that is mostly suburban in character, with a downtown that is busy during the day but mostly dead at night, and where the proportion of suburbanites to urbanites is well above the 1-1 of Toronto (if one takes into consideration the 6 million population of the GTA, then Toronto itself is makes up just under half the population of the region), often approaching 2-1 and even 3-1 or more.
If the OP wants to live in an urban setting, the city of Toronto will not disappoint. Old Toronto has a population of 750,000 and a population density that is among the highest in North America (7583 persons per sq. km). The Old City is dynamic and busy at all hours of the day, with many excellent urban neighbourhoods that will please any city-lover. It offers all the attractions, amenities, entertainment venues, and hustle and bustle of any great city, and does not empty out after 5:00 like some cities where the majority of downtown workers live in the suburbs. Furthermore, if they cannot afford to live in Old Toronto, York, or East York, the other "buroughs" are all dynamic urban communities in their own way, and offer fairly decent access to the downtown, depending on location.
To summarize, I agree that while Toronto's three largest "buroughs" are certainly less urban than the Old City or York and East York, I cannot agree that they have more in common with suburbs like Mississauga or Richmond Hill. Their population densities are significantly higher, they have a busy transit system with frequent service and connections to the downtown, and a more urban layout and character than any suburb.
Perhaps more importantly, if the OP is under the impression that Toronto is a city dominated by suburbs, this is not correct. Toronto - like any city - has suburbs, but the suburbs do not dominate it like in certain American cities, where the population of the surrounding suburbs dwarfs that of the city itself. Toronto is a great city with a very urban character. The "buroughs" of Scarborough, North York, and Etobicoke are not as urban as the Old City, but they are not quite suburban either. I suggest visiting the following site (Bing Maps - Driving Directions, Traffic and Road Conditions), zoom in on Toronto, then click the tab that says "bird's eye". This will allow you to get a close-up view of Toronto's urban landscape from above, and compare it to the surrounding area. Once you've fully explored the region using this feature, you can use Google's street view to get an even more intimate look at areas of the city that drew your attention when you were surveying the city with Bird's Eye View.
+1 for TOKidd. "Most" to me implies higher than 70% of residents don't live in Toronto proper but work here. I don't think that's true at all - half sounds about right. Now it might be about which half - for instance where I work (a big bank) many people with families live in Pickering, or Mississaga or some other godawful place (just kidding) but most of the young kids who don't live at home either live downtown or least aspire to and will move some day.
In many US cities, living in the 'inner city' is not a desired location, and so after a baseball game for instance the streets empty pretty quick. Conversely in Toronto (and other cities like NYC, to be fair) the bars fill up afterwards.
Getting back to the OP, can we all agree that downtown Toronto (minus pockets) is pretty safe after dark? I mean especially compared to Brazil, which is basically the murder capital of the universe if you take Iraq and Afghanistan out of the running (no offense).
TOKidd, the majority of people in the GTA and even in the city of Toronto live in suburban areas. If the housing stock is primarily single family detached homes, the area is suburban. In fact, even regular bus service and the existence of corner stores does not by itself make an area urban. Etobicoke is very suburban. Everything north of Eglinton is very suburban. Even Danforth Avenue is pretty much the prototypical "streetcar suburb" type of area. As soon as you get away from Danforth Avenue itself, it becomes single family detached residential. North York, outside of Yonge St. and parts of Sheppard Ave. is extremely suburban too. If an area has cul-de-sacs, it is the definition of suburbia. Don't tell me Royal York & Eglinton is "urban." What about Forest Hill... is that urban?
TOKidd, the majority of people in the GTA and even in the city of Toronto live in suburban areas. If the housing stock is primarily single family detached homes, the area is suburban. In fact, even regular bus service and the existence of corner stores does not by itself make an area urban. Etobicoke is very suburban. Everything north of Eglinton is very suburban. Even Danforth Avenue is pretty much the prototypical "streetcar suburb" type of area. As soon as you get away from Danforth Avenue itself, it becomes single family detached residential. North York, outside of Yonge St. and parts of Sheppard Ave. is extremely suburban too. If an area has cul-de-sacs, it is the definition of suburbia. Don't tell me Royal York & Eglinton is "urban." What about Forest Hill... is that urban?
Well, if that's your definition of "urban" vs. "suburban", so be it. I'm not going to try and change your mind. However, I think you cannot ignore impoprtant factors such as population density, access to transit, and urban planning/layout. Ultimately, I think these things are more important in determining whether an area is urban as opposed to the rather simple notion that any place that has mostly detached homes is suburban. Under this definition, much of San Francisco, parts of downtown Seattle, and many other indisputably urban areas in North America would be considered suburban, simply because much of the housing is detached. Even parts of downtown Toronto have plenty of detached and semi-detached housing, while many parts of suburbia have lots of high rise clusters, townhouses, and semis. Saying that an area is suburban simply because most of its housing is detached is too simplistic, and does not fit with the reality of modern North American cities. Even Queens and parts of Brooklyn (especially the southern part of the borough) have mostly detached housing, but you can hardly say they are suburban, because there are also apartment buildings, townhouses, and semis - just like the parts of Toronto we are discussing.
Besides, you forget the fact that many of those "single-family" homes in Etobicoke, North York, and Scarborough are actually not single-family homes at all. They may be detached, but many of them are chopped up into rentals. This typically is not allowed in the burbs, where zoning laws prevent houses from being turned into duplexes.
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