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No, I said that I've been able to make friends everywhere that I've lived. You brought up different countries and cultures. I still feel like I -- or anyone -- can make friends ANYwhere, provided that they put in the effort and engage.
Your original quote was
"Yes, I agree, it's not the place, nor the people in it. It takes work and effort to make friends."
Sounds like full time job to make friends in Toronto and in Canada. Fortunately, this is not the case everywhere.
Basically, all these are probably western countries. I was born in Russia, lived Israel and Thailand, and the norms there are very different from the western countries. People are much more open to socialization and bonding friendships.
Your idea that people absolutely same everywhere (thus totally discarding different cultures and traditions) is because of your experience limited to living in the western world only. This idea is wrong if you apply it outside of the western world.
I just find all these generalizations a bit much. Assuming everyone in certain societies are more 'open' to socialization and bonding friendships. I think It is far more an individual thing than societal. We shouldn't conflate socialization with friendship either. Someone can be a social butterfly yet have few if any friends and in particular close and deeply rewarding friendships.
Even if we roll with the assumption that Torontonians are more guarded than other places, we have no data to back up whether or not they have more or less bonding friendships. It is entirely possible that individuals who don't appear to be very sociable on the surface, actually have deep and close friendships or relationships. They may actually be more likely to have those than social butterflies buzzing from one 'friend' to the other. Perhaps they may not 'socialize as much as a retiree making the beer bar rounds in Pattaya day and night - but it doesn't mean they haven't found deeply satisfying relationships.
I'll buy the fact that in the west, individualism is more pronounced. However, i'm not buying that this automatically means people everywhere else are more 'open' to lasting or even more satisfying social discord. They may actually feel 'suffocated' in some instances as if the family/community unit Is too cohesive to the point of being oppressively so.
I have noticed in my travels to some countries outside the west, especially if I travel alone which I do often that many people are absolutely shocked that I would travel alone. They say they would feel 'lonely' and just wouldn't be 'allowed' to do that, yet for me, I love the freedom of it and am able to satisfy any loneliness I have by just well - socializing and making new friends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_wanderer
Sounds like full time job to make friends in Toronto and in Canada. Fortunately, this is not the case everywhere.
Do you know how ridiculous this 'sounds'
As for Dawn - I don't think she's been to Toronto but I can tell you - she already HAS a friend in Toronto and we have both agreed that if she lived here - good chance we'd be 'besties' - maybe us cold Canadians and Americans aren't so cold - hmmmmmm......
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,032,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
As for Dawn - I don't think she's been to Toronto but I can tell you - she already HAS a friend in Toronto and we have both agreed that if she lived here - good chance we'd be 'besties' - maybe us cold Canadians and Americans aren't so cold - hmmmmmm......
Right before Quebec's 1980 referendum, many of my friends left Montreal for Toronto. Well, we were teenagers -- their entire families left. I have old friends there. I've been to Toronto, as recently as 2016 (and went to the Hockey Hall of Fame to prove it ). The Toronto that I saw in 2016 had matured significantly since the previous time I'd been there (approximately 15 years earlier). I loved it. That trip in 2016 made me realize that I'd happily live there. Great, great city.
I just realized that I wouldn't want to "evict" your current bestie. I could be your bestie understudy. Either way, we'd be great friends, I can sense it.
PS. Wear your toque again today. Cold, ice, freezing rain. IN APRIL!
+fusion2
It is quite pointless to argue with you if your life experience is limited to living in one place (or similar places). Then you extrapolate your experience to other places (which is a reasonable way of thinking in many cases, but not always).
I explain why some people think that Toronto is hard for socializing (these people are usually immigrants or Canadians who got a chance to live elsewhere), and why you think it is not. It depends on your life experience.
And friendship is a kind of numbers game (unless you believe in luck and buy lottery tickets). And some social skills are required for making friends. And these social skills (like any other skills) are developed with practice. The more people you meet and socialize, the better social skills you develop.
Honestly, while I was living in Israel (which is pretty much western) and my travels were limited to other western countries, my way of thinking was very similar to yours.
+fusion2
It is quite pointless to argue with you if your life experience is limited to living in one place (or similar places). Then you extrapolate your experience to other places (which is a reasonable way of thinking in many cases, but not always).
I explain why some people think that Toronto is hard for socializing (these people are usually immigrants or Canadians who got a chance to live elsewhere), and why you think it is not. It depends on your life experience.
And friendship is a kind of numbers game (unless you believe in luck and buy lottery tickets). And some social skills are required for making friends. And these social skills (like any other skills) are developed with practice. The more people you meet and socialize, the better social skills you develop.
Honestly, while I was living in Israel (which is pretty much western) and my travels were limited to other western countries, my way of thinking was very similar to yours.
Nobody can claim the life experience ownership card here. Have you lived in every single country in the world? No you have not. You lived in Israel and Thailand - so what!!!!!! seriously big deal - you lived in Thailand and you think you are an expert in life experience and the social dynamics of every country on earth. Thailand is one country outside the west you have lived in (and a pretty safe bet as far as S.E Asian countries go) - one with the most developed and welcoming expat social dynamic in all of S.E Asia. Live in Laos or Cambodia or Bhutan and get back to me. I love Thailand but give me a break about your life experiences lol. You remind me of one of those I lived in Thailand teaching English for a few years or I a was a cyber nomad who lived in Chiang for a few years so I'm a global social dynamic expert oooooh..
I have travelled to many countries and have friends in many countries so my experience is almost as good as it is going to get practically speaking. Nobody can live everywhere. I think I've written quite a bit in here that actually shows I do not extrapolate my experience to other places. I do my best to get to know the culture and the people. I also know MANY people from countries where we assume people are happy with the social dynamic and assume it is easy to make real friends and where socializing is just a way of life and that is simply not the case. In some instances the social pressures they feel are unrelenting and smothering. Are you going to invalid their actual life experiences and sentiments they shared with me about this? You seem to have a knack for dismissing the experiences of others - perhaps you should actually listen to people instead saying it is pointless to discuss matters with them.
As for what you said about friendship requiring social skills - I, 100 percent agree with that. It takes practice. I've tried to provide guidance and advice in my posts to those who are having a tough time with that because I used to be like that! They might not like that I can be sassy but they need to get used to it when they do end up socializing with real people. You can take these people, dump them in Bangkok or Chiang Mai or Barcelona or Tokyo and they will STILL have difficulties socializing because the fundamental problem is something only they can address.
Right before Quebec's 1980 referendum, many of my friends left Montreal for Toronto. Well, we were teenagers -- their entire families left. I have old friends there. I've been to Toronto, as recently as 2016 (and went to the Hockey Hall of Fame to prove it ). The Toronto that I saw in 2016 had matured significantly since the previous time I'd been there (approximately 15 years earlier). I loved it. That trip in 2016 made me realize that I'd happily live there. Great, great city.
I just realized that I wouldn't want to "evict" your current bestie. I could be your bestie understudy. Either way, we'd be great friends, I can sense it.
PS. Wear your toque again today. Cold, ice, freezing rain. IN APRIL!
Oh sorry Dawn - I didn't know you have been to T.O. Next time you stop by let's go for a tea or coffee! I'm bummed about the weather. I actually had no idea until Thursday afternoon that the weekend would be shot weather wise. Tonight we are just going to chill in with some beers and single malt scotch
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,032,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
Oh sorry Dawn - I didn't know you have been to T.O. Next time you stop by let's go for a tea or coffee! I'm bummed about the weather. I actually had no idea until Thursday afternoon that the weekend would be shot weather wise. Tonight we are just going to chill in with some beers and single malt scotch
No, I said that I've been able to make friends everywhere that I've lived or visited. You brought up different countries and cultures. I still feel like I -- or anyone -- can make friends ANYwhere, provided that they put in the effort and engage.
I think the original point (from the first post in this thread , which keeps getting revived since 2013) was that the OP and many who agreed with OP had lived in other places and were able to make friends a lot more easily than in Toronto, which is a point all the replies with opposing view seem to ignore to address , while the fact that for the last 5 freaking years it keeps getting brought back pretty much tells people this is not just a small group’s opinion - and apparently this topic has been discussed in many other threads, like this one from even earlier //www.city-data.com/forum/toron...e-friends.html
And the sentiment is almost exactly the same
local people can deny it all they want, but it doesn’t change how other people’s feeling about what they are experiencing, there is probably no right or wrong, just different opinions and different perspectives ... but I can understand how and why some local people get defensive about it - I talk crap about my hometown all the time but I can’t stand outsiders say anything negative about it lol
Last edited by moveagain; 04-16-2018 at 09:11 PM..
Also, I probably have different definition for “friends” than some of the replies that claimed to have made fiends all over the world - for me fiends are rather personal, they are the ones I can share a lot of things with and the connection would last for longer than just a few months - If I met some people somewhere and spend some friendly time together but never see them again , I wouldn’t consider them my friends - they are just nice people I met and probably clicked but there wasn’t much room or time for friendship to establish
I never had any problems in Toronto as a tourist but I have heard from the locals that the dating scene is bad for singles in their 20s. I find that hard to believe in a city as big and diverse as Toronto but i have heard the same about SF, Seattle and a few other big US cities like Boston.
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). The Toronto that I saw in 2016 had matured significantly since the previous time I'd been there (approximately 15 years earlier). I loved it. That trip in 2016 made me realize that I'd happily live there. Great, great city. 
