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Old 02-06-2014, 04:21 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 12,515,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjun18 View Post
Thats a lot. Plus there much more like U Condos, INDX Condos etc.

The only gripe I have is that transit should be boosted at a similar rate in the core. The only transit related developments I can think of that are going on are the Union Station expansion, the UPX rail link, and the new streetcars that roll out this year on selected streets.
It is very obvious that downtown needs a subway along the King/Queen corridor. A LRT along Queen's Quay will be in urgent need as well.

Yet politicians just can get over their stupid Sheppard or Scarborough subway lines where the density apparently doesn't justify one.

If we compare Toronto and Chicago, it is shocking how little our downtown is covered by rapid transit. No lines south of Bloor? We need at least one, preferably too, along with another line east of Yonge and west of University.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
2,983 posts, read 3,621,417 times
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I posted this in another thread when someone tried to compare Toronto to NYC:

New York has world class attractions such as The Met, American Museum of Natural History, the Museum of Modern Art, Grand Central Station, Times Square, Central Park, The New York Public Library, The Status of Liberty, Brooklyn Bridge, the many shows both on Broadway and off, and a unique art deco architecture crowned by the Empire State and Chrysler Buildings - and that is just Manhattan. Toronto has what? The CN Tower, The Royal Ontario Museum, the Art Gallery of Ontario, Union Station, Mirvish Productions, Yonge-Dundas Square and public parks that look more like overgrown vacant lots for the most part.

There is no comparison between these cities outside of them being large and built next to large bodies of water. To argue otherwise would be akin to comparing a Ford GT to a '74 AMC Gremlin on the sole basis that they both have four wheels and a motor.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:54 AM
 
1,636 posts, read 2,393,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin View Post
I posted this in another thread when someone tried to compare Toronto to NYC:

New York has world class attractions such as The Met, American Museum of Natural History, the Museum of Modern Art, Grand Central Station, Times Square, Central Park, The New York Public Library, The Status of Liberty, Brooklyn Bridge, the many shows both on Broadway and off, and a unique art deco architecture crowned by the Empire State and Chrysler Buildings - and that is just Manhattan. Toronto has what? The CN Tower, The Royal Ontario Museum, the Art Gallery of Ontario, Union Station, Mirvish Productions, Yonge-Dundas Square and public parks that look more like overgrown vacant lots for the most part.

There is no comparison between these cities outside of them being large and built next to large bodies of water. To argue otherwise would be akin to comparing a Ford GT to a '74 AMC Gremlin on the sole basis that they both have four wheels and a motor.
I think you are confusing the words "vibe" and "compare". I don't think the OP said s/he is comparing the two cities. They are asking if TOR/NYC have the same "vibe", the "feel".

Kobe Bryant has a similar "vibe" and "feel" to his playing style to Michael Jordan, but you def cannot compare the two. MJ is in a league of his own.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
Fusion or whoever else can answer this. Is ground floor retail included in all of these new condo's? I see the cranes all over the place when I visit, but never paid much attention to the design. It is great to add more people to the downtown core, but we need more things for them to do and retail of all sorts (shopping, restaurants, bars, etc...) are what really liven up a city.

Restaurants especially are what make a city vibrant. Shopping tends to shut down early everywhere, but restaurants can stay open until all hours of the night.
Quite a few of these places have podiums with retail including restaurants/bars/shopping - the thing that we have to be careful of is that we don't demolish buildings either of heritage or of character in favour of endless condo's that'll give us cookie cutter density! I'm all in favour of demolishing a parking lot and some of the ugly architecture that was spawned in the sixties and seventies in favour of some nice developments, but not the places that give the city its character.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,893 posts, read 12,477,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin View Post
I posted this in another thread when someone tried to compare Toronto to NYC:

New York has world class attractions such as The Met, American Museum of Natural History, the Museum of Modern Art, Grand Central Station, Times Square, Central Park, The New York Public Library, The Status of Liberty, Brooklyn Bridge, the many shows both on Broadway and off, and a unique art deco architecture crowned by the Empire State and Chrysler Buildings - and that is just Manhattan. Toronto has what? The CN Tower, The Royal Ontario Museum, the Art Gallery of Ontario, Union Station, Mirvish Productions, Yonge-Dundas Square and public parks that look more like overgrown vacant lots for the most part.

There is no comparison between these cities outside of them being large and built next to large bodies of water. To argue otherwise would be akin to comparing a Ford GT to a '74 AMC Gremlin on the sole basis that they both have four wheels and a motor.
As Mr Jun stated - there is a difference between cultural and architectural prowess and the vibe a place has. Toronto can create a modern vibe with its own institutions and ped vibrancy that I think will make us hold our own and we are doing a pretty good job actually...

One thing we do very well is festivals - few cities (in good weather that is) have as impressive a festival culture as T.O - particularly of the ethnic variety.. You name it and more often than not they are some of the largest and most impressive of their kind.

What we don't do and what we need to do is make it known what we do have! NYC has had the benefit of the American media juggernaut and has had that benefit for a very long time... we in Canada and that includes T.O need to start thinking bigger and globally and to the future.

So no, Toronto is not NYC I think everyone would agree to that but we are making a lot of progress in the city and i'd rather be proud of it and contribute to it than to look for excuses to slight and denigrate it (something Canadians do very well I might add which is to diminish our attributes). We aren't global enough, we can't compare to the history of this or that place, we aren't good enough etc etc... we need to stop asking for permission to be big and bold and stop with this self deprecating nonsense - the future will favour those places that do think big and bold in all areas of civic life - so we can be a part of it or fall behind in typical Canadian fashion! I know what I choose...

Last edited by fusion2; 02-08-2014 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:26 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 12,515,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
As Mr Jun stated - there is a difference between cultural and architectural prowess and the vibe a place has. Toronto can create a modern vibe with its own institutions and ped vibrancy that I think will make us hold our own and we are doing a pretty good job actually...

One thing we do very well is festivals - few cities (in good weather that is) have as impressive a festival culture as T.O - particularly of the ethnic variety.. You name it and more often than not they are some of the largest and most impressive of their kind.

What we don't do and what we need to do is make it known what we do have! NYC has had the benefit of the American media juggernaut and has had that benefit for a very long time... we in Canada and that includes T.O need to start thinking bigger and globally and to the future.

So no, Toronto is not NYC I think everyone would agree to that but we are making a lot of progress in the city and i'd rather be proud of it and contribute to it than to look for excuses to slight and denigrate it (something Canadians do very well I might add which is to diminish our attributes). We aren't global enough, we can't compare to the history of this or that place, we aren't good enough etc etc... we need to stop asking for permission to be big and bold and stop with this self deprecating nonsense - the future will favour those places that do think big and bold in all areas of civic life - so we can be a part of it or fall behind in typical Canadian fashion! I know what I choose...
Not that I disagree with anything you said, but I believe festivals are overrated... I honestly don't think the number of festivals has any material impact on whether a city is interesting to live in, its charm and quality of life.

Toronto has many festivals, but most are uninteresting. Taste of Little Italy for example is totally underwhelming - I have been there - they are essentially selling average street food (most has nothing to do with Italy) for 150% of the normal price, with some street music and performance. I didn't enjoy it at all. Most of the food-related festivals end up offering underwhelming food for some reason, and for an escalated price it doesn't deserve. Just because it is on the day of Taste of Danforth doesn't mean a hotdog should be sold at $7 or an icecream for $5 (which is essentially the same as the $2 at Metro).

It would be more interesting if those festivals could hold some events that show people the background, culture of Italian food for example. A better way is to make some interesting food on the spot and let visitors see how they are made, or even have the opportunity to do it themselves - that will be fun and "cultural". Instead, all the vendors are just pre-made generic food like burgers, sausages, pastas for a higher price - it sounds to me more like an opportunity for them to make more money taking advantage of the festival and the large crowd than providing anything culture, and I am bored by it.

By festivals you need to show some real "culture", and involve people into something. For example, the Gay Parade is big too, but except for the repeated message of "pride", what does it really tell people including kids besides many gays like to wear flamboyant often too revealing clothing? Yes, it is a fun party, but in the end, it doesn't really instil people with any positive including tolerance. People love it just like they love Disneyland, and the event does little to bring the gay population any closer to average citizens. And it is the same old trick year after year. Doug Ford crudely said it is a show about "butt-naked men", but don't you think that's exactly the impression the parade leave people with? I myself didn't see much beyond that although I am very pro-gay rights.

Just my two cents. At least from my personal experience, I don't think Toronto's festivals made the city a lot more interesting.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Hamilton, ON
69 posts, read 98,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjun18 View Post
Thats the big one. If you really wanna live in NYC its gonna cost you. Otherwise you can still live there but in other parts of the city that are away from the "action" like parts of Queens, BK, the Bronx, or even outside the city in NJ. Living in the outer boroughs are fine. It just depends on what you want.

If money is the big issue for you, you can still live in a big city that has lots to do, offers good public transit/subways and travel to NYC once in a while. Chicago, Toronto and Philly are all great cities with a lot to offer. No they are not NYC, but they are great cities.
I have already accepted that I will NEVER EVER be directly in the middle of Manhattan. BUt I would be totally happy being a 1/2hr-1hr subway away. There are even cheaper areas on the other side of Central Park like Washington Heights & Inwood though STILL pricey. Realistically though NJ is probably what would happen and I would be FINE with that. Holland Tunnel and PATH. Basically anywhere I could say Hey I feel like going to Times Square, then put on my shoes and be there in 30mins-1hr.

Or theres this place in in Brooklyn. May not be much but its cheap for NY standards. Need info on moving to NYC ANd for someone like me I would never be there anyways. But none of this means NOTHING anyways because I don't have citizenship. But I have stilll done my research and there ARE affordable ways to be there or at least close enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
As Mr Jun stated - there is a difference between cultural and architectural prowess and the vibe a place has. Toronto can create a modern vibe with its own institutions and ped vibrancy that I think will make us hold our own and we are doing a pretty good job actually...

One thing we do very well is festivals - few cities (in good weather that is) have as impressive a festival culture as T.O - particularly of the ethnic variety.. You name it and more often than not they are some of the largest and most impressive of their kind.

What we don't do and what we need to do is make it known what we do have! NYC has had the benefit of the American media juggernaut and has had that benefit for a very long time... we in Canada and that includes T.O need to start thinking bigger and globally and to the future.

So no, Toronto is not NYC I think everyone would agree to that but we are making a lot of progress in the city and i'd rather be proud of it and contribute to it than to look for excuses to slight and denigrate it (something Canadians do very well I might add which is to diminish our attributes). We aren't global enough, we can't compare to the history of this or that place, we aren't good enough etc etc... we need to stop asking for permission to be big and bold and stop with this self deprecating nonsense - the future will favour those places that do think big and bold in all areas of civic life - so we can be a part of it or fall behind in typical Canadian fashion! I know what I choose...
I never brought it up but since someone else mentioned the word architecture that is another pretty important point as well. OLD architecture/areas/districts. Like buildings with stone gargoyles and such. I guess when I said "Vibe" before what I meant is walking down the street in TO is there any areas while looking up at the buildings you would get a feel/sense of NYC?

Obviously there is not a damn thing in TO that would resemble the Empire State Building but the but this morning I just discovered 25 The Esplanade which highly resembles NYC's Flatiron building. I have also heard the Gooderham Building referred to as TO's Flatiron but I don't see it in the Gooderham building.

Guess I'm having somewhat of a hard time putting into words what exactly I mean. Writing isn't my strong point. I build stuff with tools.

Last edited by AllTheGoodNames.AreTaken; 02-09-2014 at 10:28 AM..
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Hamilton, ON
69 posts, read 98,731 times
Reputation: 26
Toronto Old City Hall. THATS a building I could see myself liking.
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,893 posts, read 12,477,897 times
Reputation: 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Not that I disagree with anything you said, but I believe festivals are overrated... I honestly don't think the number of festivals has any material impact on whether a city is interesting to live in, its charm and quality of life.

Toronto has many festivals, but most are uninteresting. Taste of Little Italy for example is totally underwhelming - I have been there - they are essentially selling average street food (most has nothing to do with Italy) for 150% of the normal price, with some street music and performance. I didn't enjoy it at all. Most of the food-related festivals end up offering underwhelming food for some reason, and for an escalated price it doesn't deserve. Just because it is on the day of Taste of Danforth doesn't mean a hotdog should be sold at $7 or an icecream for $5 (which is essentially the same as the $2 at Metro).

It would be more interesting if those festivals could hold some events that show people the background, culture of Italian food for example. A better way is to make some interesting food on the spot and let visitors see how they are made, or even have the opportunity to do it themselves - that will be fun and "cultural". Instead, all the vendors are just pre-made generic food like burgers, sausages, pastas for a higher price - it sounds to me more like an opportunity for them to make more money taking advantage of the festival and the large crowd than providing anything culture, and I am bored by it.

By festivals you need to show some real "culture", and involve people into something. For example, the Gay Parade is big too, but except for the repeated message of "pride", what does it really tell people including kids besides many gays like to wear flamboyant often too revealing clothing? Yes, it is a fun party, but in the end, it doesn't really instil people with any positive including tolerance. People love it just like they love Disneyland, and the event does little to bring the gay population any closer to average citizens. And it is the same old trick year after year. Doug Ford crudely said it is a show about "butt-naked men", but don't you think that's exactly the impression the parade leave people with? I myself didn't see much beyond that although I am very pro-gay rights.

Just my two cents. At least from my personal experience, I don't think Toronto's festivals made the city a lot more interesting.
Some are obviously better than others but I think it is a credit to the city to have the festivals we do and it does add to the vibrancy of the place - they are fun and get people out and about trying different foods (some better than others yes), dancing to different types of music and interacting with different people, enjoying street art and performers etc are all fun things to do and experience and it absolutely add to the city!

We have some high profile festivals as well- TIFF, Luminato, Nuite Blance, Buskerfest, Caribana, Taste of the Danforth etc and all the other smaller ethnic/arts/cultural festivals that aren't as well known but interesting. I think for the most part they are great and add to the cultural milieu of the city and we do a lot of them! Does it make our quality of life better - sure people enjoy them and for those that attract tourists these events draw people and their dollars to the city which support jobs.

Just a bit about Pride - its more than just a parade it is a week long event that reminds people to celebrate life.. Nothing wrong with it - a bit commercial but we are hosting World Pride 2014 that is going to bring in tons of people from around the world and few cities get to host such an event. Toronto would not be getting this event if we didn't do our Pride festivities year after year and that we have the experience organizing large scale events such as this is a feather in our cap because we will continue this trend with new and better events in the future.

Better we have them and actually get people out and about enjoying life instead of what - staying at home and watching American Television or sipping on tea, nibbling on crumpets wishing we were living somewhere else? No thanks!

Last edited by fusion2; 02-09-2014 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,893 posts, read 12,477,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheGoodNames.AreTaken View Post



I never brought it up but since someone else mentioned the word architecture that is another pretty important point as well. OLD architecture/areas/districts. Like buildings with stone gargoyles and such. I guess when I said "Vibe" before what I meant is walking down the street in TO is there any areas while looking up at the buildings you would get a feel/sense of NYC?

Obviously there is not a damn thing in TO that would resemble the Empire State Building but the but this morning I just discovered 25 The Esplanade which highly resembles NYC's Flatiron building. I have also heard the Gooderham Building referred to as TO's Flatiron but I don't see it in the Gooderham building.

Guess I'm having somewhat of a hard time putting into words what exactly I mean. Writing isn't my strong point. I build stuff with tools.
Toronto doesn't have the classical skyscraper architecture of NYC or Chicago or even some other major U.S cities but it is definitely one of the more vertical cities in N.A overall... We actually do have some good old skyscrapers with Gargoyles and some fantastic Beaux Arts Buildings like Canada Life Building and Commerce Court North (which has gargoyles) along with the Chataux Styled Royal York.. Plus just all the other architectural gems that aren't scrapers but beautiful nonetheless, like the wonderful Neo Gothic architecture at the U of T and not to mention the Distillery Districts industrial Victorian heritage architecture.

It also must be said that Toronto has some fantastic examples of the International Style by I.M Pei, Van Der Rohe and Stone.. and some POMO gems mixed in.

Last edited by fusion2; 02-09-2014 at 01:29 PM..
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