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Here's my take on the whole debates and transit thing: stop debating, just start digging. Dig Dig Dig. I'm not even sure I care where. Just start digging.
If Miller had started digging and tearing up earth, there's no way that Ford could have cancelled his work with the stroke of a pen, negating 7 years of so called work.
dig dig dig.
very well said. And leave it up to the actual transit planners and civil engineers, instead of politicians who like to draw their own fantasy train lines on a map.
First, they need to get rid of the tokens, and lower fares. As far as coverage, it's better than anything i'm used to, I don't see why people complain.
First, they need to get rid of the tokens, and lower fares. As far as coverage, it's better than anything i'm used to, I don't see why people complain.
I wonder what you are used to... and how that should be a determining factor when planning transit for Canada's largest city.
Lower fares? And how would you want to fund and maintain current service? With what? Pixie dust?
I wonder what you are used to... and how that should be a determining factor when planning transit for Canada's largest city.
haha. he is probably from Atlanta so that's not surprising.
Toronto's public transit is bad. Period. The fact that it is better than most other Canadian and American cities doesn't mean it is not bad, it just means other cities are even worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123
Lower fares? And how would you want to fund and maintain current service? With what? Pixie dust?
It is totally possible.
Fire all the union workers who work 4 hours (effective) a day with generous salaries and benefits and hire workers and operators from the market, including foreign countries, who are willing to do a much better job for much lower cost. I am sure $1.5 will be more than enough to support the operating cost.
As to building new transit, same idea. Have an international tender. The winner can bring its own contracted workers from wherever he wants. I am sure the Eglinton line will be done by 2017 at half the cost, and a Yonge relief line will be completed before 2020.
As to building new transit, same idea. Have an international tender. The winner can bring its own contracted workers from wherever he wants. I am sure the Eglinton line will be done by 2017 at half the cost, and a Yonge relief line will be completed before 2020.
Sadly we let greedy unions run the country.
I doubt that is politically feasible in any country, not even in an authoritarian state like China. For the record, even China built its own high speed rail train sets with local labor, because even there, the government has to put local industry and employment first. Name one OECD country that goes out of its way to bring in foreign cheap labor for its major infrastructure projects. That is the equivalent of political suicide.
I doubt that is politically feasible in any country, not even in an authoritarian state like China. For the record, even China built its own high speed rail train sets with local labor, because even there, the government has to put local industry and employment first. Name one OECD country that goes out of its way to bring in foreign cheap labor for its major infrastructure projects. That is the equivalent of political suicide.
Agree.
Smart idea that makes sense but won't be popular. Why shouldn't we save taxpayers $10b and 5 years in constructing infrastructure? If local workers think their jobs are taken, fine, give them half of the saving.
China doesn't need foreign labour. They may be cheaper but not as skilled. China built its 2000km high speed rail in 4 years, multiple subway lines in 3 years, while the 100-meter YTZ tunnel has taken 3 years and still not finished. You do the math.
Agree.
Smart idea that makes sense but won't be popular. Why shouldn't we save taxpayers $10b and 5 years in constructing infrastructure? If local workers think their jobs are taken, fine, give them half of the saving.
China doesn't need foreign labour. They may be cheaper but not as skilled. China built its 2000km high speed rail in 4 years, multiple subway lines in 3 years, while the 100-meter YTZ tunnel has taken 3 years and still not finished. You do the math.
China's former Ministry of Railways was able to pull that off because it had the power to issue $531.9 billion USD worth of debt in 5 years. Read this number again: $531.9 billion. The only other agencies on this earth that had the power to issue that level of government-backed bond is the Chinese central government and the Fed. Period.
That development has come at an extremely high social, political, and financial cost. Whenever you remove checks and balances and endow so much concentrated power in one agency, corruption runs rampant:
- The former Minister of Railway Liu Zhijun, who solely oversaw the massive high speed rail expansion and debt build up, was sentenced to death in July 2013 with a suspended sentence.
- July 2011 saw one of the worst high speed rail collisions in history, the Wenzhou High Speed Rail Collision Wenzhou train collision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, with 40 fatalities and 192 seriously injured.
- In December 2011, the Chinese State Council released reports finding quote "serious design flaws", "flaws in the bidding and testing process", and the expedited construction process that by-passed basic environmental and safety assessments.
- Among the Chinese public, Liu Zhijun's name became synonymous with "a broken system" that shadowed the entire high speed rail expansion.
- China Central Television, China's state-owned broadcaster, published this rare and scathing critique of the corrupt high speed rail process:
Quote:
If nobody can be safe, do we still want this speed? Can we drink a glass of milk that's safe? Can we stay in an apartment that will not fall apart? Can the roads we travel on in our cities not collapse? Can we travel in safe trains? And if and when a major accident does happen, can we not be in a hurry to bury the trains?
Canada and the U.S. are democratic governments that operate under completely different circumstances. I don't think government in this world would want to China's development model of growth at all costs, resulting in astronomically high environmental, social, and human costs.
I understand your sense of urgency and the need to improve our infrastructure constantly, with haste and efficiency, but the Chinese model is hardly something to be proud of, despite its astounding achievements when expressed in numbers and figures. FYI, one of my relatives currently works in the State Council where he also indirectly participated in the Wenzhou Crash investigation from July to December 2011.
^ you are exaggerating. Trains have accidents. It happens in Spain, the US or Germany. Canada too. Turkey just launched its istanbul-Ankara HSR with help of the Chinese.
The trains are running currently all over the country. I wish we have a Toronto-Montreal HSR at least, instead of driving for 6 hours every time.
As to corruption, sure. The price you pay for rapid progress. What we pay here is outrageous cost coupled with extremely long time line (10-12 years for a subway line? kidding?) Doubt all the bribery money is as much as the wasted $ we paid (gas plant is $1B) and the time we wasted (years and years doing nothing). I doubt any Chinese officials took $1bn bribery. Western countries just love to focus on anything bad in China, LOL.
Yes, the wenzhou accident killed 40 people. At the same time:
The Santiago de Compostela derailment occurred on 24 July 2013, when a high-speed train travelling from Madrid to Ferrol, derailed at high speed outside of the railway station at Santiago de Compostela, Spain. killing 79 and injuring, around 140.
The Eschede train disaster occurred on 3 June 1998, near the village of Eschede in Lower Saxony, Germany, when a high-speed train derailed and crashed into a road bridge. 101 people died and around 100 were injured.
Does that mean the Spanish/German trains are faulty?
In Canada, only 2 years ago, the Burlington VIA train derailed on February 26, 2012, resulting in deaths of the 3 engineers and 46 injuries.
But when it comes to China, it is always about some unspeakable scandals and shoddy quality control, as well as some schadenfreude - see they grow so fast, look at what happened, it must be all bad!
^ you are exaggerating. Trains have accidents. It happens in Spain, the US or Germany. Canada too. Turkey just launched its istanbul-Ankara HSR with help of the Chinese.
The trains are running currently all over the country. I wish we have a Toronto-Montreal HSR at least, instead of driving for 6 hours every time.
As to corruption, sure. The price you pay for rapid progress. What we pay here is outrageous cost coupled with extremely long time line (10-12 years for a subway line? kidding?) Doubt all the bribery money is as much as the wasted $ we paid (gas plant is $1B) and the time we wasted (years and years doing nothing). I doubt any Chinese officials took $1bn bribery. Western countries just love to focus on anything bad in China, LOL.
Yes, the wenzhou accident killed 40 people. At the same time:
The Santiago de Compostela derailment occurred on 24 July 2013, when a high-speed train travelling from Madrid to Ferrol, derailed at high speed outside of the railway station at Santiago de Compostela, Spain. killing 79 and injuring, around 140.
The Eschede train disaster occurred on 3 June 1998, near the village of Eschede in Lower Saxony, Germany, when a high-speed train derailed and crashed into a road bridge. 101 people died and around 100 were injured.
Does that mean the Spanish/German trains are faulty?
In Canada, only 2 years ago, the Burlington VIA train derailed on February 26, 2012, resulting in deaths of the 3 engineers and 46 injuries.
But when it comes to China, it is always about some unspeakable scandals and shoddy quality control, as well as some schadenfreude - see they grow so fast, look at what happened, it must be all bad!
Yes, but in all of those countries you listed, the head of railway did not get shot as a result of massive $500 billion + debt. No I am not at all exaggerating. Ask anyone from the mainland. Westerners often cannot picture the sheer scale of corruption in Chinese infrastructure projects. The railway minister alone accumulated $250 million USD worth of bribes and embezzled funds that were funneled away from projects. I am ethnic Chinese. You think I don't want to see my homeland to be strong and prosperous? Loving my homeland doesn't mean turning a blind eye to shoddy construction and rampant systemic corruption.
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