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Looking at US cities by CSA, and comparing them to The GTA+Hamilton; It's safe to say that New York is well out of reach. I think Los Angeles is likewise off the table. Chicago, Washington, San Francisco, and Boston are all in the 8-10 million range in population.Then there are five additional cities clustered in the same general population range as Toronto: Philadelphia, Houston. Dallas, Atlanta, and Miami.
It's all good, man. Canadians can also be a bit defensive for some of the same reasons that Midwesterners are.
Just wanted to point out that the GTA + Hamilton wouldn't really be comparable to an American CSA though, in terms of area it would be closer to an American MSA. The closest definition to a CSA that it officially used in the Toronto area is the Golden Horseshoe, which had 8.8 million as of the 2011 census, and by now would be pushing 9.5 million people. Even if you shaved off a million people in the more far flung areas that would still leave enough people to fit in with the Chi/Wash/SF/Bos group. Golden Horseshoe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
According to this ranking by Demographia, in terms of continuously built up urbanized areas, Toronto would be 4th in the U.S. Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
That's absurd. You've been hating on Toronto ever since you joined this forum.
Probably because I was born there and lived and worked either directly in the city or its shadow my entire life. As such, I have a good point of reference when I compare it to other major cities.
If you think Toronto is some kind of exciting, cultural paradise, you really need to travel more.
As Atticman mentioned, you quoted and bolded his post where he said that "Toronto is also at least among the top three most most vibrant and bustling cities on the continent with an urban vibe and streetlife that blows away all but a few other cities in the U.S. and Canada. Period."
I completely understand what you are saying and I agree with some points. As I mentioned above I spent almost 3 weeks back in Toronto September. Weather was nice enough for people to enjoy outside, so the weather was not a factor. I was impressed by the amount of construction going on and what has been completed, I took time to admire what is being built and what it may mean to the city in the near and distant future. The thing that I noticed was that the vibrancy has still not turned up a notch due to this development. I was out quite a few weekday nights and noticed alot of empty restaurants, bars and streets. I expected Toronto to bustle day and night, weekday and weekend. You cant fault me for noticing that it unfortunately did not.
You see it differently and that is fine, there is room for disagreement on this forum.
As far as your comparison is concerned, Chicago always comes to mind first when people are looking for a US comparison to Toronto. Minneapolis is a place I have only visited once briefly and that is hardly enough time to understand a city enough to make a fair comparison, so I will take your word for it.
Fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticman
Toronto's streetlife EASILY matches or surpasses all of those cities (except NYC), you'd have to have blinders on to say otherwise. Then again, you must have blinders on since you said in another thread that Toronto doesn't have many taxis cruising its streets and that hailing cabs is unknown here. You also said that Union Station doesn't have any major renovations going on that you could see.
Toronto's streetlife EASILY matches or surpasses all of those cities (except NYC), you'd have to have blinders on to say otherwise.
And you are a complete and utter homer for making such a claim. All these cities match or top Toronto in streetlife.
Honestly, I don't see how Toronto can match even one of these cities. How can Toronto compare to SF in street level vibrancy, to take one example? I just don't get it. Anyone want to compare Union Square to Bloor Street? LOL. Those are the high fashion corridors in the respective cities.
There's essentially one downtown street with really strong street level activity (Yonge) and that street, while very busy, has pretty ugly street level feel. Besides that, most of downtown is a series of dead-end streets, or broad, highway like roads lined with condo boxes and little streetlife (Bay, Spadina, etc.). It isn't a particularly pleasant environment for pedestrians compared to other major cities (unless you're comparing to the Dallases of the world, where yes, Toronto is extremely vibrant in comparison).
At absolute best, even if you are a Toronto homer, you cann't seriously argue that Toronto is better than seventh in North America. NYC, Mexico City, Guadjalajara, LA, SF, Chicago, Montreal are all guaranteed more vibrant. I don't see how you don't also include Boston, Philly, and DC ahead of Toronto, as they are roughly at Montreal's level of street-level feel (DC is boring at street level, possibly more boring than Toronto but still vibrant).
If you want to argue that Toronto is in the same general range of vibrancy as DC, Boston and Philly, I will not argue that, but compared to the other cities, it's just laughable.
And you are a complete and utter homer for making such a claim. All these cities match or top Toronto in streetlife.
Honestly, I don't see how Toronto can match even one of these cities. How can Toronto compare to SF in street level vibrancy, to take one example? I just don't get it. Anyone want to compare Union Square to Bloor Street? LOL. Those are the high fashion corridors in the respective cities.
There's essentially one downtown street with really strong street level activity (Yonge) and that street, while very busy, has pretty ugly street level feel. Besides that, most of downtown is a series of dead-end streets, or broad, highway like roads lined with condo boxes and little streetlife (Bay, Spadina, etc.). It isn't a particularly pleasant environment for pedestrians compared to other major cities (unless you're comparing to the Dallases of the world, where yes, Toronto is extremely vibrant in comparison).
At absolute best, even if you are a Toronto homer, you cann't seriously argue that Toronto is better than seventh in North America. NYC, Mexico City, Guadjalajara, LA, SF, Chicago, Montreal are all guaranteed more vibrant. I don't see how you don't also include Boston, Philly, and DC ahead of Toronto, as they are roughly at Montreal's level of street-level feel (DC is boring at street level, possibly more boring than Toronto but still vibrant).
If you want to argue that Toronto is in the same general range of vibrancy as DC, Boston and Philly, I will not argue that, but compared to the other cities, it's just laughable.
There's a lot more to a city than a DT core so perhaps you need to get out more on a visit to T.O.. Much of T.O's best nightlife, streetscapes elements of urbanity (like MANY) American cities are not in the DT core and outside of it. In T.O's case it is further west of the city.. Have you honestly been to these places west of the core or are you happy to just throw tantrums and insist other cities are 'guaranteed' more vibrant when it appears you haven't experienced the city. Did you experience QSW, Kensington, College Street, The Junction, The Distillery etc - in DT did you experience The Gay Villiage and did you check out Cabbagetown for example? Did you walk around the U of T and take in any of the neo-gothic architecture there? How about St Lawrence Market - did you go? The Chinatown stretch on Spadina isn't a vibrant streetscape..hmmm really? There are few Chinatowns in N.A that can match.
Everybody has an opinion and you are entitled to it.. Here's another 'opinion' on QSW and T.O's coolness factor.. You may not agree with it but you do have to accept that not everyone is as dismissive of the city as you are and these people don't have to be 'homers' either.
Anyway - I agree that there are other vibrant places in N.A but it is so silly to say that guaranteed T.O isn't going to match the vibrancy of cities like Montreal, S.F, L.A and Chicago in many areas it succeeds in doing just that. Each of these cities have their vibrant and not so vibrant places.
From a resident's perspective, Toronto is arguably the best city in Canada.
It has all the perks of a big North American city including (a) major league sports teams, (b) broadway shows/ film festivals, (c) great cuisine from all over the world, (d) plenty of shopping malls/ areas, etc ... (long list)...
Add to that the fact that Toronto is relatively inexpensive city (for a large city), has great schools and colleges and great jobs. Yes, we often hear about the lack of those high-paying jobs (like you find in the US) for recent graduates but there is a good chance that this might change over time and technically affects very few people.
So, for a resident, what does Toronto lack that other cities have? Really nothing.
However, Toronto has a lot of things that residents can definitely not find in other Canadian cities (or even some largish American ones).
If you live in Toronto, it definitely feels like the center of the world. As a former resident myself ... I totally get it.
That's understandable. When you add everything up. But that does not necessarily make it the best on individual metrics like weather, character, street-level vibrancy, etc.
Man, these "Toronto compared to American cities" threads bring all the jealous haters out of the woodwork!
Face it people, in the next 10 years or so, as far as the U.S. and Canada are concerned, Toronto will join NYC as one of the two undisputed dominant alpha cities that stand well above all the rest in the minds of those who appreciate and crave the experience of living in or visiting a truly big, vibrant urban city. Gotham and Metropolis.
Depends on the measure.. Certainly if you like a city with tall scrapers and a sea of highrises - T.O is certainly number 3 in that measure right now.. Every year you look at the skyline of the city and compare it to Chicago in terms of density and big city feel and it is closing in on the windy city. It certainly is starting to clobber Chicago in population densities across the board in its urban areas and now exceeds Montreal and S.F (which wasn't always the case and is fairly recent).. NYC is untouchable in Canada/U.S.. Street level vibrancy and feel is more subjective and T.O (particularly Old Toronto) needs to fully be explored before coming to more solid conclusion.. It has its levels of strength and weakness when compared to cities like Chicago, S.F and Montreal.
Last edited by fusion2; 10-20-2014 at 09:05 PM..
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