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I don't quite understand the Minneapolis comparison. I've never been but I've actually heard about the "Minnesota nice" concept being similar to Canadian mannerisms on more than one occasion. Per wiki:
"Minnesota nice is the stereotypical behavior of people born and raised in Minnesota to be courteous, reserved, and mild-mannered. The cultural characteristics of Minnesota nice include a polite friendliness, an aversion to confrontation, a tendency toward understatement, a disinclination to make a fuss or stand out, emotional restraint, and self-deprecation.[SIZE=2][[/SIZE][SIZE=2]1[/SIZE][SIZE=2]][/SIZE] It can also refer to traffic behavior, such as slowing down to allow another driver to enter a lane in front of the other person. Critics have pointed out negative qualities, such as passive aggressiveness and resistance to change."
So I can see how one can compare Canadians or Toronto to Minneapolis in terms of personality of locals (with the exception of the traffic part for TO) since it sounds like there are some similarities. But how is the city structure, demographics, status, and "look and feel" similar to Toronto? I agree that it doesn't feel like its in the same league as Toronto or even a mini-Toronto.
Last edited by johnathanc; 10-16-2014 at 07:54 AM..
On street level though Toronto is still not quite anything special. I was expecting the building boom to add alot more vibrancy at street level, but the improvements are smaller than I experienced. I still like quite a few cities better on the ground, both ascetically and vibe wise. That includes a few American cities like NYC, Chicago, SF, Boston and maybe even Philly. I have only been to Minneapolis once, but I do not think it is a match for Toronto street level at all, but as I said I have limited experience.
As for the vibrancy on the street level, this is something I notice too. Every time I'm in TO (and I've been 3 times this year and will be back in a couple of weeks), I go out to restaurants and bars but it always seems so hit or miss. King West, Ossington, Queen West, Dundas West, College - it doesn't seem to have consistent energy (at least at night) one would expect with the condo build out that should bring thousands downtown. Where is everyone? I feel I know the city pretty well but it seems like it's become more of a town where you have to go find cool spots instead of it gripping you on the streets like a Montreal, NY or even Boston. Toronto used to be one of the top cities for nightlife 10 years ago.
Last edited by johnathanc; 10-16-2014 at 07:57 AM..
As for the vibrancy on the street level, this is something I notice too. Every time I'm in TO (and I've been 3 times this year and will be back in a couple of weeks), I go out to restaurants and bars but it always seems so hit or miss. King West, Ossington, Queen West, Dundas West, College - it doesn't seem to have consistent energy (at least at night) one would expect with the condo build out that should bring thousands downtown. Where is everyone? I feel I know the city pretty well but it seems like it's become more of a town where you have to go find cool spots instead of it gripping you on the streets like a Montreal, NY or even Boston. Toronto used to be one of the top cities for nightlife 10 years ago.
Toronto's "vibrancy" has been grossly overstated on this forum, and is only true to those who have seen a few North American cities and are clueless about the outside world (yeah, compared with DTLA, or Dallas, DT Toronto is vibrant). I have never found TO to be an exceptionally vibrant city. I mean, if you have seen a few European or Asian cities, you wouldn't call Toronto with 6M people vibrant. Most cities with comparable size I have visited are more vibrant than Toronto. We have way too many quiet residential streets and not enough of activities.
For example Yonge/Eglinton is touted to be a vibrant midtown full of energy. Yet walk one block aside from Eglinton or Yonge, you face quaint residents streets with nothing but single family homes. Same for Yonge/St Clair etc. Half of downtown, that is the entire area east of Yonge st except King East and Church between Carlton and Elisabeth is essentially uneventful. The other half are busy only on certain streets - a big chunk of it is UofT, and then you have dead streets such as Bay, University/Avenue road and Bathurst.
Overall, Toronto for its size is too residential and too quiet. Madrid, Rome, Buenos Aires or Hangzhou all have a better urban vibe, not to mention larger ones such as Istanbul, Los Angeles or Chengdu. Most of my friends who visited TO for the first has the first impression that Toronto appears a lot smaller than they thought.
What I've heard of Bourdain and Toronto being ugly is not primarily related to the skyline. It's more about the city at street level: commercial streets, etc.
If anything, Toronto's skyline is one of its best aesthetic attributes.
You really think that?
I've spent many summers sailing in lake Ontario and I think you get the best view of the Toronto skyline from the lake or centre island. Sometimes me and my friends would talk about the changing skyline - new condos were coming up every few months. One after another - the blue-green glass condos littered the skyline. They all look the same .... row after row of ugly glass condos.
What you have now is this:
The nicer looking building like the ScotiaBank, TD, BMO towers are all blocked from view.
I've spent many summers sailing in lake Ontario and I think you get the best view of the Toronto skyline from the lake or centre island. Sometimes me and my friends would talk about the changing skyline - new condos were coming up every few months. One after another - the blue-green glass condos littered the skyline. They all look the same .... row after row of ugly glass condos.
What you have now is this:
The nicer looking building like the ScotiaBank, TD, BMO towers are all blocked from view.
I see your point. Note I didn't say it looked awesome, only that it's one of the city's better aesthetic attributes.
But sure, most of the buildings aren't that good and not even close to being "signature" skyscrapers.
It is still massive in scale and that gives it a big city skyline oomph that's easily the third best in Canada-USA.
It looks better and even more impressive at night BTW.
What I've heard of Bourdain and Toronto being ugly is not primarily related to the skyline. It's more about the city at street level: commercial streets, etc.
If anything, Toronto's skyline is one of its best aesthetic attributes.
Yes, he was talking about the building at street level. I remember, he took a cab from the downtown airport and was driving by all those newer buildings.
Frankly, no one cares about a city's skyline unless the city happens to be HK or NYC. Third biggest and fourth biggest - it all gets boring really fast. Has anyone seen the Mississauga skyline lately? The rate at which it is growing, it might become the second biggest skyline in Canada (beating Montreal and the rest).
I see your point. Note I didn't say it looked awesome, only that it's one of the city's better aesthetic attributes.
But sure, most of the buildings aren't that good and not even close to being "signature" skyscrapers.
It is still massive in scale and that gives it a big city skyline oomph that's easily the third best in Canada-USA.
It looks better and even more impressive at night BTW.
Hah! I was going to mention the bit about Toronto at night. Looks a lot better with the new changing color lights on the CN tower and the glowing Rogers Center.
Speaking of pretty skyline. I always thought that this one looked better than Toronto. Size doesnt matter all the time.
Vancouver - a skyline you would want to photograph!
Toronto's "vibrancy" has been grossly overstated on this forum, and is only true to those who have seen a few North American cities and are clueless about the outside world (yeah, compared with DTLA, or Dallas, DT Toronto is vibrant). I have never found TO to be an exceptionally vibrant city. I mean, if you have seen a few European or Asian cities, you wouldn't call Toronto with 6M people vibrant. Most cities with comparable size I have visited are more vibrant than Toronto. We have way too many quiet residential streets and not enough of activities.
For example Yonge/Eglinton is touted to be a vibrant midtown full of energy. Yet walk one block aside from Eglinton or Yonge, you face quaint residents streets with nothing but single family homes. Same for Yonge/St Clair etc. Half of downtown, that is the entire area east of Yonge st except King East and Church between Carlton and Elisabeth is essentially uneventful. The other half are busy only on certain streets - a big chunk of it is UofT, and then you have dead streets such as Bay, University/Avenue road and Bathurst.
Overall, Toronto for its size is too residential and too quiet. Madrid, Rome, Buenos Aires or Hangzhou all have a better urban vibe, not to mention larger ones such as Istanbul, Los Angeles or Chengdu. Most of my friends who visited TO for the first has the first impression that Toronto appears a lot smaller than they thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc
As for the vibrancy on the street level, this is something I notice too. Every time I'm in TO (and I've been 3 times this year and will be back in a couple of weeks), I go out to restaurants and bars but it always seems so hit or miss. King West, Ossington, Queen West, Dundas West, College - it doesn't seem to have consistent energy (at least at night) one would expect with the condo build out that should bring thousands downtown. Where is everyone? I feel I know the city pretty well but it seems like it's become more of a town where you have to go find cool spots instead of it gripping you on the streets like a Montreal, NY or even Boston. Toronto used to be one of the top cities for nightlife 10 years ago.
I am glad I'm not the only one who notices this.
I get that we are speaking about a Canadian city here, which like US cities have to be graded on a curve because they are all so car centric in nature. I get that is our culture and its not changing anytime soon. So the cities mentioned by Bot will always be in another class, because they just do vibrancy better than us in North America, except for Mexico which is world class when it comes to street level activity.
There is absolutely no reason why Toronto should not be better or comparable to every other city not named NYC. Jonathan mentioned Montreal and Boston. I would also add Philly and SF (which I would rank ahead of MTL and BOS as well). When you visit those cities you see people living their lives on the street on a daily basis. Maybe it is because in SF and BOS people are so accustomed to living in overpriced sh*tty cramped housing, that they want to be anywhere but their apartment. Toronto has some pretty great places for short money. Or maybe they just set up public squares better? That could also be a factor.
One thing that I notice is TO does not have enough outdoor dining and patios. They also do not have enough pedestrian only areas cut off from car traffic, which encourage people to freely be out and about. I think more of that would go a long way towards adding to that vibrancy. The city is big enough and populated enough, you should feel it immediately based on population alone.
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