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I don't agree with the always too little to late.. Slow progress is better than no progress wouldn't you say?? I also think that this renewed focus on PT may actually snowball and ultimately take a new and much needed life of its own instead of an anchored mentality that things will always stay the same just because.... Sometimes it just takes a bit of something good to really start to ball rolling into something better..
As for costs - High cost of labour/unions maybe in relation to other nations? Plus I think an endless desire to appease NIMBY's to the point that while trying to please everyone, you end up pleasing noone.
I have a friend who lives in north Toronto. Every time I talk about transit enthusiastically, he dismisses it as complete waste of money. He thinks that downtown is becoming too car-unfriendly with all the streetcar tracks and PEOPLE walking so he seldom comes here, and that building so many transit is really unnecessary because cars are always faster and more convenient.
One time when he again says it is annoying to have a slow moving street car ahead of his car, I told him there are about 80 people in that street car. If most of them sits in a car, you would have 60 cars in front of you, how do you like that?
I agree it is incredibly slow. 2019 would be the most optimistic scenario. I predict 2021/2022 at best. A LRT project like this should take 5-6 years, instead of 10-11 years. But that's Toronto. Look at the renovated Nathan Phillips Square. After God knows how many years and much many millions of $$$, it is still not finished and it looks hardly impressive either. Remains a cold and uninviting public space full of nothing but endless concrete.
Then take a look at the Queens Quay reno. Painfully slow.
There are two things I hate about Toronto. One is the weather, something not its fault. The other is the public transit, something that is its own fault. Expensive, insufficient, unreliable, backward technology. Too bad for a car-less person like me.
on the bright side, at least something good is happening. GO electrification, UPe, Eglinton, Smart track, new streetcars. Imagine all streetcars are the one model, beautiful!
I know, that timeline almost sounds like a bad joke. I wish they didn't even announce the 2019 timeline as it just sounds so deflating to hear it... it's so far away I'll most likely be married and be having my first kid by that time...
Yes, the only bright spots are UP Express and Smart Track (if John Tory can actually pull it off, and that is a big IF). Upon some reflection, I actually think UP is a pretty cool project. Many people complain about the $25 cost, but I don't think UP was intended to be "public" or "mass" transit. It's sort of a mini high-speed train line that connects a city's CBD to the airport. I was recently in London there was a very similar train called the Heathrow Express between Paddington and Heathrow Airport. It's a nice comfortable full service train ride, but at a minimum one way price of 21.50 pounds, and business class costs almost 30 pounds, for a mere 15 minutes. I think UP is modeled exactly after the Heathrow Express and similar train systems in other European capitals. And if you think about it, $25 is still a pretty good deal considering the exorbitant taxi fare between downtown and Pearson. And I know for a fact that my company will definitely be encouraging more people to go and from Pearson via UP for business travel if we want to get corporate reimbursement.
And yes, the new street cars are pretty beautiful. Too bad we only have 3 out of 200 deployed so far... only 3 in the whole city. Thanks Bombardier - you build high speed trains and planes for the entire world but can't deliver on time in your own country, for your own people...
I know, that timeline almost sounds like a bad joke. I wish they didn't even announce the 2019 timeline as it just sounds so deflating to hear it... it's so far away I'll most likely be married and be having my first kid by that time...
Yes, the only bright spots are UP Express and Smart Track (if John Tory can actually pull it off, and that is a big IF). Upon some reflection, I actually think UP is a pretty cool project. Many people complain about the $25 cost, but I don't think UP was intended to be "public" or "mass" transit. It's sort of a mini high-speed train line that connects a city's CBD to the airport. I was recently in London there was a very similar train called the Heathrow Express between Paddington and Heathrow Airport. It's a nice comfortable full service train ride, but at a minimum one way price of 21.50 pounds, and business class costs almost 30 pounds, for a mere 15 minutes. I think UP is modeled exactly after the Heathrow Express and similar train systems in other European capitals. And if you think about it, $25 is still a pretty good deal considering the exorbitant taxi fare between downtown and Pearson. And I know for a fact that my company will definitely be encouraging more people to go and from Pearson via UP for business travel if we want to get corporate reimbursement.
And yes, the new street cars are pretty beautiful. Too bad we only have 3 out of 200 deployed so far... only 3 in the whole city. Thanks Bombardier - you build high speed trains and planes for the entire world but can't deliver on time in your own country, for your own people...
I like the UPe too. I will have three trips next year, and will use it for two of them (the first will happen before it starts to operate) and I am excited as I live within 10 minutes walking to Union Station. The actual cost with a presto card is $19, so that's not too bad considering how much time/hassle I will save. Taking the TTC takes about 65-75 minutes involving two connections, compared with 25 for the UPe direct. I love travelling and the journey to YYZ is usually the least pleasant part of it and now it will improve dramatically. This is what great cities should do.
I took the Heathrow express too. Like you said, it is very expensive at almost $40 one day. The Leonardo express costs at 14 euro is roughly the same price as the UPe. The express airport trains in Tokyo is $15 from Narita and $30 to it. Too bad we don' have direct subway access but it is what it is. At least the UPe provides a convenient alternative to TTC/taxi. Not cheap, yes, but not outrageous expensive either. I had first thought it would cost $25+.
Smart Track looks promising and Tory seems very determined. I hope after years of political turbulence, Toronto is finally back on track with the right leadership.
I like the UPe too. I will have three trips next year, and will use it for two of them (the first will happen before it starts to operate) and I am excited as I live within 10 minutes walking to Union Station. The actual cost with a presto card is $19, so that's not too bad considering how much time/hassle I will save. Taking the TTC takes about 65-75 minutes involving two connections, compared with 25 for the UPe direct. I love travelling and the journey to YYZ is usually the least pleasant part of it and now it will improve dramatically. This is what great cities should do.
I took the Heathrow express too. Like you said, it is very expensive at almost $40 one day. The Leonardo express costs at 14 euro is roughly the same price as the UPe. The express airport trains in Tokyo is $15 from Narita and $30 to it. Too bad we don' have direct subway access but it is what it is. At least the UPe provides a convenient alternative to TTC/taxi. Not cheap, yes, but not outrageous expensive either. I had first thought it would cost $25+.
Smart Track looks promising and Tory seems very determined. I hope after years of political turbulence, Toronto is finally back on track with the right leadership.
At least John Tory seems to be very cozy with the conservative government in Ottawa, so let's hope that could translate into more smooth funding from the federal government.
I have a friend who lives in north Toronto. Every time I talk about transit enthusiastically, he dismisses it as complete waste of money. He thinks that downtown is becoming too car-unfriendly with all the streetcar tracks and PEOPLE walking so he seldom comes here, and that building so many transit is really unnecessary because cars are always faster and more convenient.
One time when he again says it is annoying to have a slow moving street car ahead of his car, I told him there are about 80 people in that street car. If most of them sits in a car, you would have 60 cars in front of you, how do you like that?
We certainly have enough of 'those' people here I agree... I stick with my guns however, I think the more people start to see an improved PT system that is actually going to get them to where they want to go without having to connect on a bloody bus - the better off we will be and the more converts will line up.. Plus the younger generation seems to be less 'car' crazed as the boomers/older gen x'ers before them.. It could be economic of course (not exactly a good thing), but one of the side effects of that may be ulitimately a better PT system over time.
Speaking of urbanity - A little less than 7 weeks to go before Lisbon - haha I can't wait and counting the days man!
And yes, the new street cars are pretty beautiful. Too bad we only have 3 out of 200 deployed so far... only 3 in the whole city. Thanks Bombardier - you build high speed trains and planes for the entire world but can't deliver on time in your own country, for your own people...
I didn't know that - well I guess perhaps we want to show that diplomacy is more than talk lol..
The C Series project is actually delayed and Malmo Aviation actually pulled away from being the launch customer because they were miffed because of delay of entry of the CS 100 into their fleet.. It isn't too uncommon for these delays with the launch of a new A/C - but Bombardier still can **** off more than just Canadians when it comes to prod delays with their products.. Hey, the same thing happened with Boeing and the 787 which saw delivery delays to some customers stretching 3 years...Air Canada was one of them..
As for UP - I agree with your and Botticelli's comments.. Its a good thing though a more large scale affordable mass transit connection to the airport is still desirable and a more complete option.. Irregardless - it is an option and if I lived DT still - I would have used it from time to time myself. Also I hate to say it, but if it makes things better for the movers and shakers in the business world - it does end up benefiting the masses after all..
On a different note - look for 17 new restaurant/concessions opening up at YYZ in 2015... If you like deli sandwiches - try the new Caplansky's restaurants at T1 and T3.. Urban crave has just opened up in the U.S section of T3 as well.
I didn't know that - well I guess perhaps we want to show that diplomacy is more than talk lol..
The C Series project is actually delayed and Malmo Aviation actually pulled away from being the launch customer because they were miffed because of delay of entry of the CS 100 into their fleet.. It isn't too uncommon for these delays with the launch of a new A/C - but Bombardier still can **** off more than just Canadians when it comes to prod delays with their products.. Hey, the same thing happened with Boeing and the 787 which saw delivery delays to some customers stretching 3 years...Air Canada was one of them..
As for UP - I agree with your and Botticelli's comments.. Its a good thing though a more large scale affordable mass transit connection to the airport is still desirable and a more complete option.. Irregardless - it is an option and if I lived DT still - I would have used it from time to time myself. Also I hate to say it, but if it makes things better for the movers and shakers in the business world - it does end up benefiting the masses after all..
On a different note - look for 17 new restaurant/concessions opening up at YYZ in 2015... If you like deli sandwiches - try the new Caplansky's restaurants at T1 and T3.. Urban crave has just opened up in the U.S section of T3 as well.
Somebody on the UrbanToronto forum was saying how at current production/delivery rates, Bombardier will finally complete their 200+ order by 2057, that is if they don't put in more effort and stop the chronic union strikes.
Yes, Andy Byford admitted that there are only 3 operation new street cars in Toronto as of January 2015. And we may be getting "one or two more" by summer time. Very funny.
I know, Bombardier and Boeing always have chronic delays. But c'mon, these new streetcars are nowhere near as sophisticated or groundbreaking as the Dreamliner. The only reason they are delayed is because the accessible ramp needs to be adjusted and Bombardier doesn't have enough manpower at the assembly line due to recent strikes.
I feel like fusion2, botti, and I are the only ones in the city who care about this stuff right now
Somebody on the UrbanToronto forum was saying how at current production/delivery rates, Bombardier will finally complete their 200+ order by 2057, that is if they don't put in more effort and stop the chronic union strikes.
What... that's insane lol... Heck I like the fact that we are using a Canadian company but man there should be something in the contract that says hey - if you don't find a way to step it up this deal is done!
I think the only bright spot in the near future for the transit in Toronto is the GO eletrification project (Regional Express Rail or GO RER) which essentially will turn GO into a high frequency suburban transit in the likes of the Paris RER, the Stockholm RER, or the S-Bahn system in Germany. In its latest report, Metrolinx's stated goal is to produce headway of "15 minutes or less" between trains. Sounds pretty a lot more promising than Tory's SmartTrack or the elusive DRL.
Details can be found in the below two Metrolinx project reports, one from June and the latest from Sept 2014:
I thin kthe Paris RER is a great example to emulate, as it also operates a similar bi-level rolling stock, but at a much higher frequency after eletrification:
I thinks its good. I just wish it wouldn't take too long to build considering its not fully underground.
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