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I generally find Montreal and Toronto are pretty even in terms of overall international renown.
In some parts of the world like francophone countries Montreal is more well-known and *the* big city in Canada for them, whereas in others like India it's Toronto by a wide margin and Vancouver is probably the second Canadian city people know, not Montreal.
Agreed! When I was in Morocco and told people I was from Canada they were shocked I didn't speak French and assumed I was from Montreal/Quebec... When I was i Sri Lanka the exact opposite - Toronto was the first place they referenced.
On the whole you are most likely right - Toronto and Montreal on pretty even terms with Vancouver not too far in the distant.
Keep in mind that Toronto is a comparatively small city by world standards.
PS: this is why I hate using my smartphone to post comments
Depends on what you qualify as world standards... If you are speaking of megacities in the plus 10 million range - no Toronto isn't that though it does anchor a region of almost 9 million..... There are probably 10's of thousands of cities in the world - ranking 50 in population (urban agglom) and easily the top 10 or 20 economically depending on economic measures (most papers i've read put T.O in either top 10 or 20 certainly) qualifies as more than a comparatively 'small' world city.... A small world city wouldn't singularly HQ the 8th largest stock exchange in the world for instance...
Depends on what you qualify as world standards... If you are speaking of megacities in the plus 10 million range - no Toronto isn't that though it does anchor a region of almost 9 million..... There are probably 10's of thousands of cities in the world - ranking 50 in population (urban agglom) and easily the top 10 or 20 economically depending on economic measures (most papers i've read put T.O in either top 10 or 20 certainly) qualifies as more than a comparatively 'small' world city.... A small world city wouldn't singularly HQ the 8th largest stock exchange in the world for instance...
I know it's hard to compare populations sometimes, but if Toronto were in China, it would be around the 12th biggest city for urban area population.
It would be 6th or 7th in India.
Not bad at all.
yes.
China's "city population" can be very misleading, as they usually include a large number of rural population as well. Urban population is a better measurement.
Toronto is a mid sized city in the world. That's what I have always said. Large cities have over 10 million people, such as Tokyo and Shanghai. That is a different scale. Toronto in terms of size is at par with typical Chinese second tier city such as Chengdu and Nanjing.
If put in Europe, Toronto will be the 4/5th, tied with Madrid, behind London, Paris and Ruhr Area. Not too shabby.
China's "city population" can be very misleading, as they usually include a large number of rural population as well. Urban population is a better measurement.
Toronto is a mid sized city in the world. That's what I have always said. Large cities have over 10 million people, such as Tokyo and Shanghai. That is a different scale. Toronto in terms of size is at par with typical Chinese second tier city such as Chengdu and Nanjing.
If put in Europe, Toronto will be the 4/5th, tied with Madrid, behind London, Paris and Ruhr Area. Not too shabby.
Then based on your definition, Chicago and LA are also mid-sized cities .....
Then based on your definition, Chicago and LA are also mid-sized cities .....
What constitutes large cities depends largely on one's experience. Some people think consider Vancouver or even Ottawa big cities. It doesn't matter. People here growing up behind told Toronto is a
Chicago is medium sized to me, although larger than Toronto. LA is a weird city - it is more of a collection of medium density suburbs.
You could call Toronto a big city, but cities like New York, Tokyo, Shanghai etc would be put in something like the maga city category since they evidently don't belong to the same category. From city hall, drive 30 minutes at each direction, you are basically in the lowrise suburbs in Toronto. Look at Eglinton and Leslie, you don't have a "big city" feel whatsoever. In Shanghai/Tokyo, you drive 40 minutes and are still surrounded by highrise apartment buildings, very busy shops, dense neighbourhoods with thousands of pedestrians walking everywhere just like in central city.
When I was in Istanbul, I was amazed by how many busy shopping/mixed use districts they have, in each direction, away from city centre. In Toronto, we have Yonge, Queen, Bloor/Danforth and probably 5 other smaller streets such as Bayview that have a lot of retail and 4 malls, the rest are just pure residential lowrise regions. The vibe is completely different. Istanbul is a big city, Toronto is not, at least in my dictionary.
What constitutes large cities depends largely on one's experience. Some people think consider Vancouver or even Ottawa big cities. It doesn't matter. People here growing up behind told Toronto is a
Chicago is medium sized to me, although larger than Toronto. LA is a weird city - it is more of a collection of medium density suburbs.
You could call Toronto a big city, but cities like New York, Tokyo, Shanghai etc would be put in something like the maga city category since they evidently don't belong to the same category. From city hall, drive 30 minutes at each direction, you are basically in the lowrise suburbs in Toronto. Look at Eglinton and Leslie, you don't have a "big city" feel whatsoever. In Shanghai/Tokyo, you drive 40 minutes and are still surrounded by highrise apartment buildings, very busy shops, dense neighbourhoods with thousands of pedestrians walking everywhere just like in central city.
When I was in Istanbul, I was amazed by how many busy shopping/mixed use districts they have, in each direction, away from city centre. In Toronto, we have Yonge, Queen, Bloor/Danforth and probably 5 other smaller streets such as Bayview that have a lot of retail and 4 malls, the rest are just pure residential lowrise regions. The vibe is completely different. Istanbul is a big city, Toronto is not, at least in my dictionary.
Toronto is and will never be Istanbul or Shanghai. That's a fact. And that goes for every major NA city with the single exception of New York. Let's try to set realistic expectations and realistic, reachable goals. Also, it's rather unfortunate that Istanbul has to absorb so much migrants in such a short period of time (majority of the Turkey's young and able-bodied workers), because its infrastructure and transit simply can't keep up with the population growth. When I visited in December, transit options in Istanbul felt extremely underwhelming/under-developed for a city of its size.
As for the likes of Shanghai and Beijing, there are plenty of poorly planned suburbs and concrete condo forests throughout the city, separated by monstrously wide boulevards, expressways, and ugly street level shops. Dense, yes. But I wouldn't try to use them as shining examples of urban development for other countries. TBH, many of those concrete junks in Beijing and SH make Toronto's glass condos look like 5-star hotels. The only reason majority of residents in BJ and SH put up with them is because there's no other affordable alternative. Either that or exorbitant mansions in gated communities or the ghetto with migrant workers.
What constitutes large cities depends largely on one's experience. Some people think consider Vancouver or even Ottawa big cities. It doesn't matter. People here growing up behind told Toronto is a
I disagree. Everyone has different experiences and so it is silly to have definitions for large/medium/small cities based on individual experiences.
I think it is all about context. In a conversation being had about cities in Canada, one should be able to say that Vancouver is a largish Canadian city.
Quote:
Chicago is medium sized to me, although larger than Toronto. LA is a weird city - it is more of a collection of medium density suburbs.
You can see how individual experiences can lead to silly conclusions. Chicago is not a medium sized city to anyone. And should not be a medium sized city to you ...
Quote:
You could call Toronto a big city, but cities like New York, Tokyo, Shanghai etc would be put in something like the maga city category since they evidently don't belong to the same category. From city hall, drive 30 minutes at each direction, you are basically in the lowrise suburbs in Toronto. Look at Eglinton and Leslie, you don't have a "big city" feel whatsoever. In Shanghai/Tokyo, you drive 40 minutes and are still surrounded by highrise apartment buildings, very busy shops, dense neighbourhoods with thousands of pedestrians walking everywhere just like in central city.
This is really confusing. What is a big city feel? High rises or density? If it is high rises then we unfairly exclude many European and Asian cities. If it is density, then I can name you at least 2-3 cities that are denser and busier than even places like NY and Shanghai.
Quote:
When I was in Istanbul, I was amazed by how many busy shopping/mixed use districts they have, in each direction, away from city centre. In Toronto, we have Yonge, Queen, Bloor/Danforth and probably 5 other smaller streets such as Bayview that have a lot of retail and 4 malls, the rest are just pure residential lowrise regions. The vibe is completely different. Istanbul is a big city, Toronto is not, at least in my dictionary.
Istanbul does not have high rises. Istanbul's street level activity and density is very similar to some of the mega cities in SE Asia. Some of them maybe even bigger than Istanbul.
It is obvious that Istanbul and Toronto feel very different and have different vibes. I agree with you that Toronto does not even come close to Istanbul in look, feel and street level activity. But what does vibe have to do with being a big or small city?
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