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Well I have just read a lot of positive things about the city lately. I know it's not a perfect city, TO has some flaws - but every city on the planet will have problems no matter where you go.
If the choice is between Chicago and Toronto, I don't see why an American would go through all the hassle of immigrating to Toronto. Chicago probably has the same career prospects as Toronto, and much lower cost of living. Winters suck in both cities, but it seems you want to get out of CA.
If you want a truly urban city, NYC is really the only option in North America. Both Chicago and Toronto are both a bunch of notches lower, but if those are the only two choices, I would go with Chicago's urbanity over that of Toronto.
I have looked into many of those cities you had just mentioned.
Chicago is my other option because, like TO, it is mega city with a large job market that accompanies being a city of it's size. So I figure that it would have more opportunity to move up in position and salary (not to downplay that it will likely be as competitive as any other big city).
I also really love the legacy that Chicago has in the development of modern architecture - that city could be described as the "pantheon" of American architecture given huge names like Louis Sullivan, Daniel Burnham, Frank Lloyd Wright, Mies Van Der Rohe, SOM, Helmut Jahn, and Adrian Smith lived there or were established there.
And it's true that being an American city, Chicago would be a little less complicated to move to. Thanks for the advice docwatson.
No doubt Chicago has the history - now if it is the present and the future than Toronto makes a pretty decent case! We can only hold onto the past so much eh..? More than just condo boxes going up here! T.O is a city to watch - we're just shedding the conservatism of the past so I think the next decade is really going to up the ante in terms of development and even architural cred... This past ten years - just a warm up for better to come for a city with such strong scraper momentum... I post frequently in the T.O pics section so keep your eye on it!
For those still complaining about Toronto being "expensive" and crappy and having no "jobs", let me fill you in on a couple of things.
According to the 2015 Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey, which compares major cities between Canada, US, Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand, and the UK,... Cost of living in Toronto is actually relatively CHEAPER than the following cities:
-Hong Kong
-Vancouver
-Sydney
-Melbourne
-San Francisco
-San Jose
-LA
-London
-San Diego
In fact, Toronto didn't even rank in the top 10 least affordable cities.
Also, according to numbeo.com, it confirms that cost of living in Toronto is actually cheaper than the following other cities:
-Seattle
-New York
-Chicago
-Miami
-Boston
-Philadelphia
-Washington DC
Interesting how people in Toronto are complaining about "cost" in Toronto and act like America is some golden paradise when it comes to COL... Now, when it comes to which cities have higher or lower incomes, that's a whole different discussion. In general, this speaks the truth.
Also, for those complaining about the economy in Toronto, let me hit you with some rankings from the Toronto city website for just last year:
#1 tax competitive major city in the world
Top 10 most livable cities in the world
#6 out of 30 cities in ranking for opportunity
#8 most popular destination for job seekers
#5 in the world for economical competitiveness
#15 in the world for quality of living
So to the OP, hopefully his provides you with some more comfort with your mission to move to Toronto. All trolls on this website aside, you'll be fine. Thank you, and good night.
^ It is practically impossible that Toronto is cheaper than LA, Philadelphia or Chicago. Other than rent, I don't see anything that is cheaper. So unless one plans to rent life, Toronto IMO is noticeably more expensive than all of the there. Maybe my persona experience 10 years ago in LA doesn't count any more, but my friend who moved to LA only 3 years ago told me the same story. LA is expensive, but still more affordable than Toronto.
Unless HGTV and my co-worker are both lying, a nice house 20 minutes drive from downtown Philly could cost as little as $300-400k, the same house in Toronto would be at least twice as expensive. My LA friend bought a 3 bedroom house for under $200k (yes, it is about an hour drive away from DTLA), try one hour in any distance from Yonge/Bloor, Waterloo? Hamilton? Barrie? And don't forget mortgage interest in tax deductible in the US. Other consumer products, I can't think of any that is cheaper in Toronto.
They look expensive on numbeo.com probably because the CAD/USD conversion (standing at 1.25 today). But that's irrelevant because the US doesn't all of a sudden gets more expensive just because the USD appreciated. My employer didn't pay me 20% more after CAD plummeted and American companies don't reduce your salary just because USD is stronger.
According to the website, If you input the comparison between Toronto and LA, it will even say and I quote "you will need $5,741 CANADIAN dollars in LA to maintain the same standard of life in that you can have with $5,100 CANADIAN dollars in Toronto,"
Also, it says that it takes into account net earnings after tax, even with Canadians getting taxed more than Americans...
The website could be wrong, but it seems pretty legit to me. *shrug*
So.... yeah.
But that's beside the point. The point is that Toronto is really not that expensive... It's actually cheaper than a good number of other desirable cities.
For those still complaining about Toronto being "expensive" and crappy and having no "jobs", let me fill you in on a couple of things.
According to the 2015 Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey, which compares major cities between Canada, US, Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand, and the UK,... Cost of living in Toronto is actually relatively CHEAPER than the following cities:
-Hong Kong
-Vancouver
-Sydney
-Melbourne
-San Francisco
-San Jose
-LA
-London
-San Diego
In fact, Toronto didn't even rank in the top 10 least affordable cities.
Also, according to numbeo.com, it confirms that cost of living in Toronto is actually cheaper than the following other cities:
-Seattle
-New York
-Chicago
-Miami
-Boston
-Philadelphia
-Washington DC
Interesting how people in Toronto are complaining about "cost" in Toronto and act like America is some golden paradise when it comes to COL... Now, when it comes to which cities have higher or lower incomes, that's a whole different discussion. In general, this speaks the truth.
Also, for those complaining about the economy in Toronto, let me hit you with some rankings from the Toronto city website for just last year:
#1 tax competitive major city in the world
Top 10 most livable cities in the world
#6 out of 30 cities in ranking for opportunity
#8 most popular destination for job seekers
#5 in the world for economical competitiveness
#15 in the world for quality of living
So to the OP, hopefully his provides you with some more comfort with your mission to move to Toronto. All trolls on this website aside, you'll be fine. Thank you, and good night.
The only reason that Toronto has a lower cost of living than some US cities is because of the falling CDN dollar. The US dollar is now worth 25% more. This also means that incomes have also gone down. If you check the local purchasing power on Numbeo you will see that Toronto doesn't fare so well
You would need around 5,086.87C$ (4,094.39$) in Toronto to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 4,700.00$ in Chicago, IL
Local Purchasing Power in Toronto is 11.24% lower than in Chicago, IL
The only reason that Toronto has a lower cost of living than some US cities is because of the falling CDN dollar. The US dollar is now worth 25% more. This also means that incomes have also gone down. If you check the local purchasing power on Numbeo you will see that Toronto doesn't fare so well
You would need around 5,086.87C$ (4,094.39$) in Toronto to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 4,700.00$ in Chicago, IL
Local Purchasing Power in Toronto is 11.24% lower than in Chicago, IL
My god, what exactly are we arguing here? That it's $300 cheaper to live in Chicago than Toronto? The fact of the matter is, America is probably one of the most affordable, if not the most affordable western developed country to live. I used to live in Boston and now live and work in Toronto. I pay a few dollars more every time I visit the grocery store or dine out, but on the whole, I really haven't noticed a difference in standard of living (if anything, it's a little more comfortable in Toronto with newer condo housing, access to free gym, indoor pool, and indoor parking in most residential complexes, and not having to fork out a good chunk of $ every month on health insurance).
My god, what exactly are we arguing here? That it's $300 cheaper to live in Chicago than Toronto? The fact of the matter is, America is probably one of the most affordable, if not the most affordable western developed country to live. I used to live in Boston and now live and work in Toronto. I pay a few dollars more every time I visit the grocery store or dine out, but on the whole, I really haven't noticed a difference in standard of living (if anything, it's a little more comfortable in Toronto with newer condo housing, access to free gym, indoor pool, and indoor parking in most residential complexes, and not having to fork out a good chunk of $ every month on health insurance).
That chunk of $ instead goes into long term disability insurance (I don't know if it's just my company that requires everybody to get it), as well as higher tax, nothing is free... anyway, but I did hear the insurance cost has gone up a lot since Obamacare started. I try to live healthy so I haven't needed to see a doctor for any problem, but recently I tried to have a physical for the first time in 2 years, called to make an appointment with my family doctor back in Dec, and the earliest time slot was early March ( this week) , but something unexpected happened so I had to re-schedule 2 days before the appointment, and the earliest appointment I could get is mid May -- and I just wonder: what if something happens again? Lot of things could happen in 2 months ... I may never get this physical done... it's just a bit ridiculous to make an appointment so far ahead ( and this is not for any specialist, just regular check up, listen here, pinch there, ask a few questions, take some blood sample, 20 minutes at most), back in the US I was always able to make appointment just one week in advance, for which I was fairly certain of what my schedule would be like given such a narrow time frame.
The husband of a coworker of mine got kidney stone last year, and had to ensure the excruciating pain for 3 weeks before he could finally get to see the doctor... I am in pretty good health now, but if I ever get sick I would be pretty nervous about the health insurance I am not paying for, not directly anyway
I do like the indoor pool in my building though, but I am paying hundreds of $ for management fee every month so I am going to use it real hard
Last edited by moveagain; 03-04-2015 at 09:30 PM..
The only reason that Toronto has a lower cost of living than some US cities is because of the falling CDN dollar. The US dollar is now worth 25% more. This also means that incomes have also gone down. If you check the local purchasing power on Numbeo you will see that Toronto doesn't fare so well
You would need around 5,086.87C$ (4,094.39$) in Toronto to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 4,700.00$ in Chicago, IL
Local Purchasing Power in Toronto is 11.24% lower than in Chicago, IL
Lol, you just proved my point? Check the "C" behind the dollar sign. It clearly says that $5,086C, which is converted into $4,094 AMERICAN dollars, will be the same as $4,700 in Chicago. Therefore, Toronto is cheaper...
The site takes into account the dollar value of each country, it even says it.
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