U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada > Toronto
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Fundamentally, Toronto is more like ...
Chicago 43 61.43%
Vancouver 27 38.57%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-31-2015, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,892 posts, read 12,760,578 times
Reputation: 3954

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post

What exactly is your definition of Chicago's "core," because your opinions seem off. Chicago had the fastest growing downtown in the entire United States from 2000-2010, even though the city lost population overall. The central business district in the Loop clears out after hours, but not even all of the Loop proper dies off in this day and age. Not with the theatre district, shopping on State, hotels, museums, and restaurants. Granted the Loop proper couldn't compete with downtown Toronto, but the Loop is only a small part of downtown Chicago. Neighborhoods like River North, Streeterville, and Gold Coast are also apart of downtown Chicago, and they're full of hotels, luxury high rise apartment buildings and condos, shopping, restaurants, and clubs. A neighborhood like River North doesn't die off like the Loop proper. Same with the bars in Gold Coast.

Also Chicago's North Side neighborhoods are lined with highrise apartment buildings. They don't extend far inland due to zoning, but Chicago has miles worth of high rises extending from downtown.
Well it wasn't just my opinion Perseus - several others in here have made the same observation.. With that said instantly the Gay villiage comes to mind in Toronto it is firmly inside the DT core.. Chicago its not in the DT core - didn't feel like it to me.. Perhaps it was just the size of the CBD but the the loop itself just seemed cut off from population that lives in the core area..The transition from Toronto's CBD is much more seemless on all sides and and now even increasingly to the south with condo dev... - I just didn't find that organic connection to surrounding nabe's in Chicago's core as I do in Toronto ie Yorkville, Cabbagetown, Rosedale, Corktown, Regent Park, The Annex, Chinatown all surrounding and in very close transition to the CBD and central core.. With that said, I'm open to be proven wrong!

As for Chicago having the fastest growing DT in the U.S from 2000-2010 i've heard that.. I don't think it matches T.O though - how are things growig from 2010-2015 and any comparative stats between the DT core growth between the two that's readily available.. We'll have to wait until the 2016 census for T.O the latest we have is up to 2012 but I would imagine given that T.O Condo growth has eclipsed Chicago substantially it doesn't take any stretch to conclude T.O is densifying in its core area quite handily over Chicago. It may be a case of just appearances and not taking certain areas of Chicago's core into account but I just have a hard time believing with the unbelievable condo growth in T.O's core that the number of residents living within its core doesn't trump Chicago.. This is just population within the core areas of both too - we're also discussing transition to surrounding nabes.

Last edited by fusion2; 03-31-2015 at 11:46 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-31-2015, 11:44 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,614 posts, read 2,662,567 times
Reputation: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Well it wasn't just my opinion Perseus - several others in here have made the same observation.. With that said instantly the Gay villiage comes to mind in Toronto it is firmly inside the DT core.. Chicago its not in the DT core - didn't feel like it to me.. Perhaps it was just the size of the CBD but the the loop itself just seemed cut off from population that lives in the core area..The transition from Toronto's CBD is much more seemless on all sides and now even increasingly to the south with condo dev... Toronto's core just had more people living in and right around it than what I saw in Chicago - I just didn't find that organic connection to surrounding nabe's in Chicago's core as I do in Toronto.. With that said, I'm open to be proven wrong!
I don't see what Chicago's gay neighborhoods not being in downtown Chicago really has to do with anything. That doesn't mean that downtown Chicago somehow lacks non-work day vibrancy.

The transition within the Loop itself to the population that lives there is seamless. Many of the high rise condos/apartments and hotels are next door to various businesses and government offices in the Loop. I'm going to assume that your issue with overall downtown Chicago is the river. The branches of the Chicago River cut up downtown, and actually are the reason a neighborhood like River North has its name.

As for the disconnection with downtown and the neighboring neighborhoods, you'll have to explain what you mean. Is it the lack of taller buildings, or again the geographic disconnect, such as the river?

Quote:
As for Chicago having the fastest growing DT in the U.S from 2000-2010 i've heard that.. I don't think it matches T.O though - how are things growig from 2010-2015 and any comparative stats between the DT core growth between the two that's readily available.. We'll have to wait until the 2016 census for T.O the latest we have is up to 2012 but I would imagine given that T.O Condo growth has eclipsed Chicago substantially it doesn't take any stretch to conclude T.O is densifying in its core area quite handily over Chicago.
We just received the county estimates for 2014 from the Census Bureau, so you're not going to get anything deeply specific for awhile. It might even not be until the next Census. The decennial censuses have also come across as far more accurate than their estimates the last 2 times around.

As for high rises, Toronto has a long way to go before it came catch Chicago in regards to numbers. From what I've seen, Toronto has 38 completed buildings that are 150m or taller, and 21 under construction. Chicago has 117 completed buildings of a height of 150m or more, and 4 under construction.

I do not deny the current boom in construction in Toronto, especially since I saw the cranes myself, but, assuming those stats are correct, it's going to take Toronto decades to catch up to Chicago's number, and that's assuming Toronto continues to boom consistently and that Chicago's growth remains anemic or worse.

Toronto - The Skyscraper Center
Chicago - The Skyscraper Center
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2015, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,892 posts, read 12,760,578 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post

From the last estimations I saw, metro Toronto is similar in size to Houston and Philadelphia (I think wedged between the two), but smaller than Dallas. Mexico City is also larger than NYC.

.
The GTA is estimated to be 6.5 million in 883 sq miles for 2015 in terms of urban area.. Houston and Philadelphia don't match that in terms of either population or even remotely close in terms of population density.. I'll pm you a link I can't post here. The only reason the GTA isn't larger in population is due to surrouding marshlands that impact contiguous urbanized development with other highly populated cities in the Golden Horseshoe - but it certainly packs its 6.5 million in a more dense and compact area than either Philly or Houston which both have a bit less than 6 million in their urban areas - around 5.7 million each but spread out to almost 2000 sq miles.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2015, 12:02 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,614 posts, read 2,662,567 times
Reputation: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
The GTA is estimated to be 6.5 million in 883 sq miles for 2015 in terms of urban area.. Houston and Philadelphia don't match that in terms of either population or even remotely close in terms of area/density.. I'll pm you a link I can't post here. The only reason the GTA isn't larger in population is due to surrouding marshlands that impact contiguous urbanized development but it certainly packs its 6.5 million in a more dense and compact area than either Philly or Houston which both have a bit less than 6 million in their urban areas.
I currently do not have the time to look through the report, but I did take a quick look at their estimations, and I see that their urban area definitions don't match up with how the US defines its MSAs. Hence the confusion.

I know that Toronto is a different animal due to it being outside of the US, thus the discrepancy. The current MSA estimates that I had in mind for the American cities are (roughly) 9.5 million for Chicago, 7 million for Dallas, 6.5 million for Houston, and 6 million each for Philadelphia and Washington. Toronto was bigger than I realized though.

Obviously our sprawled out metros make comparisons hard. Thanks again for the report though, I'll be sure to take a look.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2015, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,892 posts, read 12,760,578 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post
I don't see what Chicago's gay neighborhoods not being in downtown Chicago really has to do with anything. That doesn't mean that downtown Chicago somehow lacks non-work day vibrancy.

The transition within the Loop itself to the population that lives there is seamless. Many of the high rise condos/apartments and hotels are next door to various businesses and government offices in the Loop. I'm going to assume that your issue with overall downtown Chicago is the river. The branches of the Chicago River cut up downtown, and actually are the reason a neighborhood like River North has its name.

As for the disconnection with downtown and the neighboring neighborhoods, you'll have to explain what you mean. Is it the lack of taller buildings, or again the geographic disconnect, such as the river?
I gotta hit the sheets but will respond to this tomorrow. I was using the Gay villiage as one example - there are others but i'm too tired to think right now lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post


As for high rises, Toronto has a long way to go before it came catch Chicago in regards to numbers. From what I've seen, Toronto has 38 completed buildings that are 150m or taller, and 21 under construction. Chicago has 117 completed buildings of a height of 150m or more, and 4 under construction.

I do not deny the current boom in construction in Toronto, especially since I saw the cranes myself, but, assuming those stats are correct, it's going to take Toronto decades to catch up to Chicago's number, and that's assuming Toronto continues to boom consistently and that Chicago's growth remains anemic or worse.

Toronto - The Skyscraper Center
Chicago - The Skyscraper Center
Something is fishy with the Toronto stats with this site.. I'll look into this more.. Regardless lets assume the numbers are correct - there are at any given time assuming things remain the same a full 17 more scrapers greater than 150 m U/C at any given time over Chicago.. that's a heck of a big gap between the two - 17 more at any given time well that can add up over the course of a decade rather quickly.. This is JUST over 150 m - at any given time Toronto is constructing 130 highrises - I know less than 150 m highrises don't get a lot of glory but they are highrise buildings lol... Any data for highrises above 100m or even 120.. I know there is a whole slew of highrises in T.O that are between 100-150m and absolutely these count for density.. No doubt Chicago has as well but why the cutoff at 150? 148 doesn't count lol.. You can put a 148m building beside a 150 m building and you couldn't tell the height diff - trust me T.O's first 5 years of growth during the boom from 2005-2010 was FULL of 125-150 m growth... Lets not forget too - Chicago has quite a bit more office space than T.O..

I've always contended here that Chicago had the height advantage btw - overall density of DT cores and overall number of highrises - not as much.

Last edited by fusion2; 04-01-2015 at 12:26 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2015, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,892 posts, read 12,760,578 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post
I currently do not have the time to look through the report, but I did take a quick look at their estimations, and I see that their urban area definitions don't match up with how the US defines its MSAs. Hence the confusion.

I know that Toronto is a different animal due to it being outside of the US, thus the discrepancy. The current MSA estimates that I had in mind for the American cities are (roughly) 9.5 million for Chicago, 7 million for Dallas, 6.5 million for Houston, and 6 million each for Philadelphia and Washington. Toronto was bigger than I realized though.

Obviously our sprawled out metros make comparisons hard. Thanks again for the report though, I'll be sure to take a look.
Yeah we don't have a MSA - but I bet you 10 bucks to a hole in a donut that if you look at the size of MSA's for U.S cities particularly Philly and Houston they are actually larger than the GTA by a large large margin in terms of area.. We simply don't measure population the same way you guys do.. If we had a MSA equiv for Toronto it would be easily between 7-8 million people and its CSA would be more than that - somewhere around 8-9.. With that said, take a look at the report in more depth..

Last edited by fusion2; 04-01-2015 at 12:30 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2015, 12:27 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,614 posts, read 2,662,567 times
Reputation: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I gotta hit the sheets but will respond to this tomorrow.
Same here. I look forward to your response.

Quote:
Something is fishy with the Toronto stats with this site.. I'll look into this more.. Regardless lets assume the numbers are correct - there are at any given time assuming things remain the same a full 17 more scrapers greater than 150 m U/C at any given time over Chicago.. that's a heck of a big gap between the two - 17 more at any given time well that can add up over the course of a decade rather quickly.. Any data for highrises above 100m or even 120.. I know there is a whole slew of highrises in T.O that are between 100-150m and absolutely these count for density.. No doubt Chicago has as well but why the cutoff at 150? 148 doesn't count lol.. You can put a 148m building beside a 150 m building and you couldn't tell the height diff - trust me T.O's first 5 years of growth during the boom from 2005-2010 was FULL of 125-150 m growth... Lets not forget too - Chicago has quite a bit more office space than T.O..

I've always contended here that Chicago had the height advantage btw - overall density of DT cores and overall number of highrises - not as much.
I'll be honest, hell if I know why they cut off at 150m. I also looked at the completed ones in Chicago, and they're virtually all in downtown, therefore those residential lakefront highrises are all out of the picture.

Toronto's new ones will be built in a more dense fashion, rather than Chicago's straight line up and down the lakefront, but it still may not catch up for the total number of buildings when you bring in the lower than 150m ones. Not yet anyway. I'll have to look tomorrow to see if i can dig up this aerial pic of Chicago that highlights the buildings extending from downtown, and you'll see what I mean.

Goodnight.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2015, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,892 posts, read 12,760,578 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post
Same here. I look forward to your response.



I'll be honest, hell if I know why they cut off at 150m. I also looked at the completed ones in Chicago, and they're virtually all in downtown, therefore those residential lakefront highrises are all out of the picture.

Toronto's new ones will be built in a more dense fashion, rather than Chicago's straight line up and down the lakefront, but it still may not catch up for the total number of buildings when you bring in the lower than 150m ones. Not yet anyway. I'll have to look tomorrow to see if i can dig up this aerial pic of Chicago that highlights the buildings extending from downtown, and you'll see what I mean.

Goodnight.
Cool yeah I'm not an aerial maps type of guy - i'm sure some of the other T.O posters can do the same for T.O.. I think a definition of what constitutes DT in both Chicago and Toronto is in order here lol I do agree.. If you start using a long line of residentials up the lakeshore in Chicago and its rather thin i'm not sure that is part of 'DT' Looking at Aerials of both cities, Toronto highrise DT cluster CBD/residential alike seems more concentrated as does its transition to midrise-low rise residential around the entire core - whereas the residential line you speak of for Chicago sort of just jets out and does its own thing up the north lakeshore.. This may be why in the DT core T.O has that greater residential ped vibrancy from where I could see.

Anyway lots of data to look through but certainly defining DT in both cases is important. As for total number of buildings in Toronto vs Chicago.. That is an argument already decided lol - Toronto wins in terms the strict definition of highrise which is greater than 35 m

List of cities with the most high-rise buildings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I do honestly suspect without looking through data thoroughly that Chicago has more greater than 100m as well but the difference in terms of ratio not as great as over 150m

The question of core density however is what height constitutes highrise within the core (density isn't just a really tall building - a tall or tallish counts St Jamestown is a perfect example of this in DT T.O where its a huge cluster of building with the greatest res density in Canada yet the buildings are tall they are just concentrated and dense packed together) and once those are defined which areas in both cities are being defined as DT.. For example, T.O has a highrise cluster at Yonge and Eglinton but these would certainly not be 'DT' - until we define these we're all just sort of well you know lol...

Last edited by fusion2; 04-01-2015 at 06:27 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2015, 12:48 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,614 posts, read 2,662,567 times
Reputation: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Cool yeah I'm not an aerial maps type of guy - i'm sure some of the other T.O posters can do the same for T.O.. I think a definition of what constitutes DT in both Chicago and Toronto is in order here lol I do agree.. If you start using a long line of residentials up the lakeshore in Chicago and its rather thin i'm not sure that is part of 'DT' Looking at Aerials of both cities, Toronto highrise DT cluster CBD/residential alike seems more concentrated as does its transition to midrise-low rise residential around the entire core - whereas the residential line you speak of for Chicago sort of just jets out and does its own thing up the north lakeshore.. This may be why in the DT core T.O has that greater residential ped vibrancy from where I could see.
It's just an aerial pic that someone probably took from a plane leaving O'Hare.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paytonc/3785616575/

It's not as needed as it was before though because I thought we were just discussing overall number of high rises at that point. I didn't mean to insinuate that everything from Lincoln Park through Edgewater was also apart of Chicago's downtown. My bad.

As for greater pedestrian vibrancy, I stayed at a hotel in the middle of downtown Toronto not far from the gay village, and it honestly didn't feel any more vibrant than downtown Chicago to me. A friend of mine who is from NYC was also with me, and he actually compared downtown Toronto in feel to a smaller Chicago. Obviously Toronto proper is bigger these days, but they were his words, not mine.

Quote:
Anyway lots of data to look through but certainly defining DT in both cases is important. As for total number of buildings in Toronto vs Chicago.. That is an argument already decided lol - Toronto wins in terms the strict definition of highrise which is greater than 35 m

List of cities with the most high-rise buildings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I do honestly suspect without looking through data thoroughly that Chicago has more greater than 100m as well but the difference in terms of ratio not as great as over 150m
I'm surprised, but honestly not shocked when thinking about Chicago overall. Chicago is very anal about keeping the highrises in the core parts of the city. Even some neighborhoods that have highrises along the lakefront that were built in decades past have since downzoned the areas. Even as neighborhoods like Lincoln Park, for example, get more expensive, the actual housing units are decreasing as homes that were converted into apartment buildings are returned to single family homes, and two lots that contained two houses are bought in order to be torn down and build one single family house. There's a strong desire to live in the neighborhood, but, unlike some other cities, Chicago's answer has been to just charge more. If you want to to build a highrise in the core, however, the city loves you. Go figure.

Anyway, looks like I learned something new today in regards to Toronto having overall more highrises.

Quote:
The question of core density however is what height constitutes highrise within the core (density isn't just a really tall building - a tall or tallish counts St Jamestown is a perfect example of this in DT T.O where its a huge cluster of building with the greatest res density in Canada yet the buildings are tall they are just concentrated and dense packed together) and once those are defined which areas in both cities are being defined as DT.. For example, T.O has a highrise cluster at Yonge and Eglinton but these would certainly not be 'DT' - until we define these we're all just sort of well you know lol...
Basically downtown Chicago is going to be the Loop proper, River North, Streeterville, the Maginificent Mile (not really a neighborhood, but it divides River North and Streeterville), Gold Coast, and the South Loop. If you want to get specific, I'd say it's actually just parts of the South Loop, and not the whole thing, as the Near North Community area (that includes River North and its neighbors) definitely feel more built up in a lot of parts. The Choose Chicago website also includes Chinatown, but I generally don't think of it as being downtown. Maybe downtown adjacent, but it is what it is.

There's also a bunch of smaller neighborhoods included in the downtown area, such as Lakeshore East and Printer's Row, but they're apart of other community areas or neighborhoods. Chicago just loves subdividing its defined community areas into multiple neighborhoods, and then sometimes throwing in sub-neighborhoods on top of those.

Here's the map of what I'm talking about from the Choose Chicago site:
Interactive Map - Chicago Neighborhoods & Communities - Choose Chicago

I'll wrap up by saying that once upon a time a lot of people just thought of as the Loop as being downtown, but considering the city's 2nd and 4th tallest skyscrapers are not located in the Loop, in addition to how built up the surrounding areas started becoming, that view changed over time.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2015, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,892 posts, read 12,760,578 times
Reputation: 3954
^^^

Hey Perseus - thanks for the time you've taken in your posts!! Very informative you are and i'm glad you chimed into this discussion..

Anyway Looking at the aerial pic of Chicago there is a HUGE line of higrises that sort of jettison outside of the 'core' or I should say jettison away from the largest cluster within the core.. Toronto has no such line of highrises to that extent outside its central cluster so certainly TO's highrise build within the core area is more compact - both large but T.O's is more like a large cluster where Chicago is this large cluster with a line of highrises stretching for what looks like miles along the north lakeshore - they don't in entirety seem so connected to DT Chicago lol and presumably they are mostly residential.. Toronto seems to blend in its residential highrises much closer to the CBD in a more compact manner. Now if you include all those highrises in that line as part of Chicago's DT core than yes i'd say it certainly would give T.O a run for its money in terms of DT core population perhaps more.. Again though - we'd need to define the DT core areas in both cities in a sort of 'official' capacity and compare populations. That long line just doesn't seem to be consolidated enough with the main cluster to in its entirety be a part of the DT core of Chicago - to me anyway. Its just too long, and on the trailing edge especially too thin and far away..

Now back to your skyscraper center links.. the 38 is a bit of an undercount for completed building in Toronto greater than 150 m.. It is 44 which isn't a big difference but still - the number of completed was a bit fishy to me so I investigated further - so i'm wondering how accurate and up to date the site is.. Regardless a count of 21 U/C in Toronto greater than 150m doesn't seem too off vs 4 for Chicago so in the next couple of years the number will be 65 greater than 150 for Toronto and 120 for Chicago..

List of tallest buildings in Toronto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regardless it is clear that Chicago skews taller than Toronto as a highrise city.. That to me was never in contention with my posts. It is a large difference and sure - TO is constructing way more greater than 150 m buildings in the last few years but it clearly will take time to reach the height of Chicago in terms of total number greater than 150m buildings (don't know about decades but within a decade would be a tall order lol) and you're right that is assuming T.O is cranking it out like it has been and Chicago remains rather anemic which isn't a sure bet in either case...

Based on the links you provided - if you look at the bottom for each city they actually include all buildings greater than 100 m in both Chicago and Toronto that have been built or U/C in the last 50 years up to 2018.. The final count for Chicago is 239 and the final count for Toronto is 218.. I'm sure Chicago has some legacy buildings greater than 100m in its core but if we use over the last 50 years and use 100m than the difference isn't all that great as I eluded to in earlier posts.. Of note, in 2014 Toronto had 22 completions greater than 100 m, 2015, 24 completions and 2016 17 completions... Chicago has never in any single year been able to crank those numbers in the last 50 years as Toronto has done each year from 2014-2016.. It just goes to show the highrise machine that Toronto has become in terms of development.. Aother thing of note - Chicago cranked out 12 in 2008, 13 in 2009 and 12 in 2010.. Sure not as much as T.O but Chicago clearly has had fairly recent and healthy highrise growth but from 2010 to 2018 the city has been in a rather highrise slump.

To recap - over the next 3 years Chicago will have about 120 buildings greater than 150 m versus about 65 for Toronto. Chicago clearly has a big lead in this regard. Over the next 3 years Chicago will have about 239 buildings greater than 100 m that have been built in the last 50 years versus 218 for Toronto.

So based on all this - in my estimation if you include buildings greater than 100m than Toronto has a very decent shot if things remain the same of not only matching Chicago in the greater than 100m count but eclipsing it within a decade.. If we are talking just greater than 150 m than the gap is a much more difficult one to close and while I wouldn't say decades i'd say definately greater than just 10 years. Chicago simply skews taller than Toronto in the greater than 150 m class - even in 5 years with all the ramped up growth in Toronto it'll still only have about half the 150m + buildings of Chicago but greater than 100 m is still respectable as a highrise building and in that regard - Chicago and Toronto aren't that far apart now. In terms of overall highrise buildings greater than 35 m - Toronto has a huge lead over Chicago about 1900 to 1100 in favour of Toronto..

As for ped vibrancy - well I think it all depends on which part of each city you're in and at what time... I'm not going to lose any sleep one way or the other - they are both large DT cores but It appears T.O has a greater concentration of residential highrises within a more compact area of the DT core... Chicago's residential highrise bulk sort of just jettisons away as if the CBD expelled them - or more likely Chicagoans LOVE highrise living close to the lake.. Anyway, parts of that line look very dense but still a long line away from the largest cluster that I have a hard time concluding they would all be included as part of a DT core.. I would imagine the composition of Chicago's main cluster is a lot more CBD oriented than in Toronto which looks to have more residential highrise form integrated within the CBD/main cluster. Regardless - even if an area isn't technically part of a DT core doesn't mean it isn't vibrant, dense, interesting.. As a matter of fact I imagine just like Toronto - Chicago has nabe's where they are MORE interesting than places solely within the DT core.. When you were in Toronto - I do hope you went west of the DT core!!

Last edited by fusion2; 04-01-2015 at 05:32 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada > Toronto

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top