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Old 07-09-2016, 12:30 PM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,288,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Well its no surprise that a city that has the second largest international airport in N.A is going to reap the benefits of that.
Toronto isn't a particularly important air hub. It basically is about the size of Orlando, Phoenix, Minneapolis, Detroit, or Charlotte.

It's the most important air hub in Canada, obviously, because it's the primate city, and is the business and immigration hub, but is not a major global player.
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Old 07-09-2016, 12:30 PM
 
2,829 posts, read 3,162,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I think there will come a time when major American cities will become more like the GTA in terms of focussing growth in a more urban and compact footprint. Its a more difficult sell for sure. Americans typically like their space and aren't as hip to live in a midrise or highrise building as Canadians are.
And that time is now. Go to any major metropolitan areas along the coasts - Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, SF, LA, Oregon, Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, Denver, Dallas (yes even Dallas of all places, which has built 140 km of grade-separated LRT in the last 10 years with 64 stations, and currently building 100 km more) - all of which are undergoing major downtown building booms of commercial and residential real estate, and all of which are also undergoing major revitalization and transformations of their respect rapid transit systems with increased federal and local funding initiatives. I was just in Cambridge MA at beginning of July, and was shocked at their highly developed bike lane system almost on every commercial and residential street, and the number of people who commute by bike each day to the point where some intersections are increasingly crowded with bikers. And that's just Cambridge MA.
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Old 07-09-2016, 02:18 PM
 
Location: NH/UT/WA
283 posts, read 258,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
And that time is now. Go to any major metropolitan areas along the coasts - Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, SF, LA, Oregon, Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, Denver, Dallas (yes even Dallas of all places, which has built 140 km of grade-separated LRT in the last 10 years with 64 stations, and currently building 100 km more) - all of which are undergoing major downtown building booms of commercial and residential real estate, and all of which are also undergoing major revitalization and transformations of their respect rapid transit systems with increased federal and local funding initiatives. I was just in Cambridge MA at beginning of July, and was shocked at their highly developed bike lane system almost on every commercial and residential street, and the number of people who commute by bike each day to the point where some intersections are increasingly crowded with bikers. And that's just Cambridge MA.
Yep, US cities have been seeing some real development for the first time since the bad old days of crime, white flight, and deindustrialization in the 70s. New York has like 10 supertall skyscrapers under construction, one even in Brooklyn.
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Old 07-09-2016, 02:25 PM
 
Location: NH/UT/WA
283 posts, read 258,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
The only reason Toronto isn't about the same population wise as Chicagoland is now is because of the greenbelt. The Golden Horseshoe isn't as contiguous as Chicagoland but its almost as populated. The dispersal of the cities are just more nodal and dense. When the GTA (which is not a CSA or MSA) does overtake Chicagoland in population in a few decades it will simply be a far more dense urban area and will feel substantially bigger because of that density. It will also be substantially more vertical.
I think once Canada's giant housing bubble bursts population growth could slow sharply in the most bubbly areas, and construction activity could grind to a near-halt for a decade or two. Houston, Dallas, and Denver had construction bubbles in the 80s and pretty much had almost zero construction activity until recently.

It won't be the end of the world, but things don't go in a straight line forever.
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Old 07-09-2016, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
12,059 posts, read 13,839,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North 42 View Post
I find it ridiculous that some people refuse to believe that Toronto could be attractive to visit as a tourist, there's so much to see and do, and it's only getting better.

Sometimes the hate that the city sees on here at times is shocking to me. Have these people actually been to the city? Honestly, I feel that a lot of it is pure jealousy and that the city is easily dismissed because it's in Canada.
I don't think anybody said that there was no reason to visit Toronto. The question was the relative difference between Montreal and Toronto. Toronto can hold its own, but Montreal throws a punch larger than its size, being a historical and cultural heavy weight.
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Old 07-09-2016, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,106 posts, read 15,795,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Toronto isn't a particularly important air hub. It basically is about the size of Orlando, Phoenix, Minneapolis, Detroit, or Charlotte.

It's the most important air hub in Canada, obviously, because it's the primate city, and is the business and immigration hub, but is not a major global player.
I already posted at length why Toronto Pearson is a global hub. Look at these airports you are posting about - they are far less internationally connected than Pearson. They are major domestic hub airports in a country with 320 million people - they are not particularly strong internationally connected airports.

Look at the airlines served at Pearson and look at all the places including where Air Canada and Air Transat go to. Compare that to the other airports you listed. Its not that hard! Don't look at domestic connections at each airport look at international.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toront...tional_Airport

If you don't see the difference I really don't know how else to explain it to you. Its really not important for you to understand anyway.

Last edited by fusion2; 07-09-2016 at 04:04 PM..
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Old 07-09-2016, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,106 posts, read 15,795,941 times
Reputation: 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
And that time is now. Go to any major metropolitan areas along the coasts - Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, SF, LA, Oregon, Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, Denver, Dallas (yes even Dallas of all places, which has built 140 km of grade-separated LRT in the last 10 years with 64 stations, and currently building 100 km more) - all of which are undergoing major downtown building booms of commercial and residential real estate, and all of which are also undergoing major revitalization and transformations of their respect rapid transit systems with increased federal and local funding initiatives. I was just in Cambridge MA at beginning of July, and was shocked at their highly developed bike lane system almost on every commercial and residential street, and the number of people who commute by bike each day to the point where some intersections are increasingly crowded with bikers. And that's just Cambridge MA.
Great!
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Old 07-09-2016, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,106 posts, read 15,795,941 times
Reputation: 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
That's complete nonsense. A greenbelt has nothing to do with commuting patterns or MSA/CSA calculations.

There is zero reason there would be millions more people living in Toronto if there were less green space. And Chicago basically has a greenbelt too.

If, not when. You are assuming population trends in the two metros stay constant for a half century. Highly unlikely, as population trends are highly variable by year, to say nothing of decade.

And, in first world cities, it's typical that vast growing metros like Toronto begin to slow down once they reach a certain population plateau. Eventually population outpaces infrastructure, and additional population leads to net decrease in quality of life. That's why LA grew like Dubai for a century, and, at some point in the 70's or 80's, massively slowed down, as it was just too big to make much sense. Similarly, Toronto, with a limited road/rail network, strained services, and in a country with many attractive, desirable cities, you will likely see a slowdown at some point.
That is all you're taking into consideration is 'commuter patterns'

A commuter who comes to a city from a far flung low density place is part of the region but its really not a cohesive part of the core urban area of a city. Its basically 'fluff'

The golden horseshoe in 2016 is about as populated as Chicagoland. Its not as contiguous and its more nodal but the cities are still loosely connected to one another. Perhaps a bit less but this will change in the coming decade. In any event, I know a lot of people who commute to my workplace from Barrie. It doesn't make Barrie exactly cohesive with Toronto any more than Joliet is with Chicago and trust me - I have a friend in Joliet and drove from their to Chicago. Same crap - I didn't feel anymore a part of Chicago in Joliet as I do a part of Toronto in Barrie.

Last edited by fusion2; 07-09-2016 at 04:17 PM..
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Old 07-09-2016, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,106 posts, read 15,795,941 times
Reputation: 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachF View Post
Yep, US cities have been seeing some real development for the first time since the bad old days of crime, white flight, and deindustrialization in the 70s. New York has like 10 supertall skyscrapers under construction, one even in Brooklyn.
NYC is a pretty exceptional case though. Even in the worst of times NYC is always a machine that is growing... Its one of the worlds top global cities - it transcends any type of bad times even on a national level - it is its own microcosm. I notice there are increased developments in other U.S cities and that is a good thing. Toronto has had a pretty solid head start in the DT core development game. We'll see how other U.S cities compare in 10 years. As for the elusive bubble zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz really man. That bubble stuff has been talked about for the last 10 years.
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:05 PM
 
Location: NH/UT/WA
283 posts, read 258,457 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
NYC is a pretty exceptional case though. Even in the worst of times NYC is always a machine that is growing... Its one of the worlds top global cities - it transcends any type of bad times. I notice there are increased developments in other U.S cities and that is a good thing. Toronto has had a pretty solid head start in the DT core development game. We'll see how other U.S cities compare in 10 years. As for the elusive bubble zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz really man. That bubble stuff has been talked about for the last 10 years.
NYC was a crime-ridden, bankrupt, declining dump in the 70s though.


The longer the bubble goes on and larger it gets, the worse the bust is gonna be.... just ask Japan.


Canadian home prices are more out of whack than ours were at the 2007 peak.


Canadian real estate IS in a bubble, along with Australia. This time is NOT different.
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