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lol yeah i'm not sure why all these Chi/Toronto threads.. I didn't start it I promise
I'm engaging in the discussion.. I type a lot of emails at work so typing away is just a habit I guess. If I don't stop soon and eat the arepas my partner made for dinner he's going to throw them at me. I don't like them either but if I don't eat em them I have to listen to the whining so rather just eat them and keep the peace
The un-affordability issue is why in Canada places like Edmonton are absorbing a lot of the "second tier" millennials and mid size cities like Austin or Portland are absorbing millennials in the US. NYC/SF just got way too expensive to live in and those other cities at least offer jobs and decent housing prices. Vancouver is notoriously overpriced in Canada and the bottom will fall out at some point. Toronto is overpriced but there are some fundamentals in its favor, not enough to sustain the rising costs, however.
What about the vast empty lots in Mississauga and the suburbs? Not exactly sure what they are meant for but they certain don't look green to me and are mostly reserved for vast single family home McMansion developments, judging by the development ads and for-sale signs put up by the city. Like a previous poster pointed out, while there've been positive developments within the city of Toronto towards high density transit oriented development, the moment you step into Markham, Scarborough, Mississauga and the other GTA municipalities, it's nothing but your typical NA suburban sprawl with a few isolated pockets of high rise condos dotted here and there. I've driven past places like Square One, Sherway, and not only is it not transit or pedestrian friendly, the current expansion of parking lots and vast isolated shopping malls is only taking these places further in a backward direction. 10 years from now our future generations are going to ask why on earth there happens to be a 1000 car lot next to an isolated condo high rise next to a vast lot of suburban McMansion look alikes along Hurontario, one of the busiest traffic corridors in the GTA.
Mississauga actually has over 400 highrise buildings and is one of the most populated suburban satellite cities in the anglo world. It certainly has its share of mcmansions (along Mississauga road) and housing subdivisions and I don't think its great urban planning at all but it is certainly more dense and larger than most satellite cities in Canamerica.. I certainly don't see a lot of 'empty lots' in Mississauga. There are some in the commercial zones in the north part of sauga near the 401 but not too many and they probably won't be empty for long. I think its pretty much grown to all points of its borders. What 'empty lots' are you referring to? Erindale park (Credit river runs through it) is empty but is actually a nice place to rollerblade and is actually one of the nicest parks in the GTA. Streetsville and Port Credit aren't bad (I've had my share of pub crawls in both places) but no - I wouldn't say Mississauga is the model of urbanity and I've always maintained car is king in Sauga - no doubt about it. There is an LRT coming to Sauga btw. All said, if you like suburban life ie driving to a power centre or driving to the shopping mall or living in a condo right beside a massive shopping centre or and living in a housing subdivision like a lot of boring families like to do it ain't so bad. There are some decent bars and clubs in sauga too if you're straight and one of those 905 clowns.
As for Toronto city proper, I think the predominant reason for high density development in and around downtown is poor transit coverage. It's not a surprise why the most densely populated areas in Toronto happen to be around the Yonge and Bloor subway lines, while vast areas of Downtown East, Downtown West, Lakeshore East and West, and Etobicoke are relatively low density. Yes there are street cars, but when people look for places to move, they are mainly concerned with rapid transit availability. And this unfortunate reality won't change for Toronto for many years to come thanks to the idiots on city council who keep flip flopping back and forth on existing transit plans, happening before our eyes as we speak:
While Smart Track gets another downgrade from previous promises, from an initial 22-stop rapid transit line last year, to 13 additional stops in 2015, to 8 stops in January 2016, to 7 stops in June, to 6 stops in July. The constant flip flopping and political interference is staggering and nauseating to say the least, to the point where no one at this point really knows what Smart Track really is:
Well transit is part of it but not the whole story. Increasingly people just want to live in the most exciting part of the city and the core of Toronto and nabe's around it in Old Toronto are the best parts of the city. I certainly would live there if I worked there! No doubt about it. There's nothing like living DT. Etobicoke sucks in comparison. Even the best transit options still means you have to get on a train or subway and that ultimately takes time versus simply walking out of your condo or apartment building and being in the villiage in 5 minutes. I live on the subway line and its still a pain in comparison. It gets me dt in 25 minutes but booo that is 25 minutes that we aren't watching the best butt contest at Woody's. That is the best option period - walk to work, walk to the bar, walk to the patio, walk to Woody's, Walk to Flash, Walk to Remingtons, Walk to Crews and Tango, Walk to Fly, Walk to Buskerfest, Walk to the Elgin Theatre etc
With UP Express in service now - we are probably going to be moving back DT and will be ever the happier for it..
The un-affordability issue is why in Canada places like Edmonton are absorbing a lot of the "second tier" millennials and mid size cities like Austin or Portland are absorbing millennials in the US. NYC/SF just got way too expensive to live in and those other cities at least offer jobs and decent housing prices. Vancouver is notoriously overpriced in Canada and the bottom will fall out at some point. Toronto is overpriced but there are some fundamentals in its favor, not enough to sustain the rising costs, however.
Where are you getting this stuff from? Do you have any sources that Toronto doesn't have enough fundamentals for future generations to live in it and support it due to rising costs? Edmonton certainly has been a growth success and that is great but its growth is still quite a bit less than the Toronto CMA and i'm not convinced it will sustain the same growth rate it has has post oil collapse. Its certainly in a better position than Calgary but still not diverse enough to compete with Toronto in the CAD context.
Rent in Toronto btw is quite affordable for a large city. I pay 1300 CAD per month for a 1000 sq ft 2bdrm apartment in the city proper (not downtown but a 5 min walk to the subway). Even rent in DT Toronto isn't beyond the capability of young people to sustain if they work DT. Many get roommates until they can afford their own digs. DT Toronto is the job capital of Canada - young people live there now and will live there for a long time to come. When Edmonton becomes the economic power of Canada to the tune of 20 percent of the nations GDP than we'll talk. Until that time this sounds like a lot of nonsense. What is a 'second' tier millennial btw?
Where are you getting this stuff from? Do you have any sources that Toronto doesn't have enough fundamentals for future generations to live in it and support it due to rising costs? Edmonton certainly has been a growth success and that is great but its growth is still quite a bit less than the Toronto CMA and i'm not convinced it will sustain the same growth rate it has has post oil collapse. Its certainly in a better position than Calgary but still not diverse enough to compete with Toronto in the CAD context.
Rent in Toronto btw is quite affordable for a large city. I pay 1300 CAD per month for a 1000 sq ft 2bdrm apartment in the city proper (not downtown but a 5 min walk to the subway). Even rent in DT Toronto isn't beyond the capability of young people to sustain if they work DT. Many get roommates until they can afford their own digs. DT Toronto is the job capital of Canada - young people live there now and will live there for a long time to come. When Edmonton becomes the economic power of Canada to the tune of 20 percent of the nations GDP than we'll talk. Until that time this sounds like a lot of nonsense. What is a 'second' tier millennial btw?
Then can you explain why before the oil crisis everyone from Toronto was running to Alberta for jobs? Calgary was the job capital of Canada, not Toronto. Now that has changed because of the falling oil prices and Toronto is doing better now.
Mississauga actually has over 400 highrise buildings and is one of the most populated suburban satellite cities in the anglo world. It certainly has its share of mcmansions (along Mississauga road) and housing subdivisions and I don't think its great urban planning at all but it is certainly more dense and larger than most satellite cities in Canamerica.. I certainly don't see a lot of 'empty lots' in Mississauga. There are some in the commercial zones in the north part of sauga near the 401 but not too many and they probably won't be empty for long. I think its pretty much grown to all points of its borders. What 'empty lots' are you referring to? Erindale park (Credit river runs through it) is empty but is actually a nice place to rollerblade and is actually one of the nicest parks in the GTA. Streetsville and Port Credit aren't bad (I've had my share of pub crawls in both places) but no - I wouldn't say Mississauga is the model of urbanity and I've always maintained car is king in Sauga - no doubt about it. There is an LRT coming to Sauga btw. All said, if you like suburban life ie driving to a power centre or driving to the shopping mall or living in a condo right beside a massive shopping centre or and living in a housing subdivision like a lot of boring families like to do it ain't so bad. There are some decent bars and clubs in sauga too if you're straight and one of those 905 clowns.
Well transit is part of it but not the whole story. Increasingly people just want to live in the most exciting part of the city and the core of Toronto and nabe's around it in Old Toronto are the best parts of the city. I certainly would live there if I worked there! No doubt about it. There's nothing like living DT. Etobicoke sucks in comparison. Even the best transit options still means you have to get on a train or subway and that ultimately takes time versus simply walking out of your condo or apartment building and being in the villiage in 5 minutes. I live on the subway line and its still a pain in comparison. It gets me dt in 25 minutes but booo that is 25 minutes that we aren't watching the best butt contest at Woody's. That is the best option period - walk to work, walk to the bar, walk to the patio, walk to Woody's, Walk to Flash, Walk to Remingtons, Walk to Crews and Tango, Walk to Fly, Walk to Buskerfest, Walk to the Elgin Theatre etc
With UP Express in service now - we are probably going to be moving back DT and will be ever the happier for it..
You realize that Transit City originally planned TWO LRT lines with dedicated Right of Way into Etobicoke and downtown west, none of which actually left city hall's planning department due to political bickering. Both of those lines promised rapid transit into downtown under 15 minutes. OF COURSE transit matters regardless of where you live in the city... how can you make such a statement for a city as transit starved as Toronto? Because good, reliable rapid transit can give people options, and options meaning a variety of neighborhoods for a wide range of affordability options giving people rapid access to work and play throughout the city. How hard is that to understand? Toronto lacks reliable rapid transit coverage - whether it be subway (DRL), elevated rail, or LRT with dedicated ROW - period.
One of our corporate offices is located in Mississauga along Hurontario near Matheson, and I can assure you there are at least 5 empty lots right within the vicinity of Hurontario in that area, one of which is currently being redeveloped into another McMansion neighborhood. Any regular driver in that area would easily notice the large swathes of semi-farmland/disused parking lots between 401 AND Square One along Hurontario unless you are just totally blind.
Then can you explain why before the oil crisis everyone from Toronto was running to Alberta for jobs? Calgary was the job capital of Canada, not Toronto. Now that has changed because of the falling oil prices and Toronto is doing better now.
Toronto already had established jobs in place and an established economy before the oil boom. You don't have 20 percent of the GDP of a nation by having no jobs!! Seriously how clueless can someone be. For heaven sake please read this wiki link..
New jobs are created all the time in Toronto but it is the existing economy that is in place that is what keeps things afloat as well as millions of Canadians - yes Ontarians are Canadians, Torontonians are Canadians paying taxes. I don't know how many migrant workers we have from other parts of the country in Toronto but I suspect there are LOTS who move here all the time or have been here for years/decades but born elsewhere in the country let alone the tens of thousands of immigrants/refs per year who come into the city every single year. I'm seriously in the extreme minority of Torontonians that is actually a native third generation Torontonian. Anyway, If suddenly every job in the GTA disappeared, if Toronto disappeared the economy of Canada would tank faster than The U.S.S Enterprise E at warp 9.8 - think of all the jobs lost, the financial economy, the services economy, the manufacturing economy and all the taxes that all those people pay gonzo...
You're mistaking net new jobs somewhere versus all jobs that exist and of course new jobs added all the time in an established economy that has been around for centuries, but has blossomed since the 60's. Anyway, Alberta's boom - that is a few years ago. The unemployment rate in Calgary is 8.8 percent now vs 6.8 percent in the Toronto CMA. Regardless of what the unemployment rate is in Toronto it always has had and probably always will have (easily for as long as you or I will be alive) more jobs than not only Calgary or Edmonton but Calgary and Edmonton combined and about the same as Alberta. Even at its peak Alberta never had any more than half of the GDP of Ontario and maybe slightly more than the GDP of the Greater Toronto Area.
Of course Alberta still has an economy but its taken a hit and is no longer able to create the jobs it was able to during the boom. If the economy of Alberta completely sunk Canada would be in trouble in a far more substantive manner than simply a depressed oil economy not able to create the jobs it was able to do. That said it would be the same for the GTA but larger in scale.
You realize that Transit City originally planned TWO LRT lines with dedicated Right of Way into Etobicoke and downtown west, none of which actually left city hall's planning department due to political bickering. Both of those lines promised rapid transit into downtown under 15 minutes. OF COURSE transit matters regardless of where you live in the city... how can you make such a statement for a city as transit starved as Toronto? Because good, reliable rapid transit can give people options, and options meaning a variety of neighborhoods for a wide range of affordability options giving people rapid access to work and play throughout the city. How hard is that to understand? Toronto lacks reliable rapid transit coverage - whether it be subway (DRL), elevated rail, or LRT with dedicated ROW - period.
One of our corporate offices is located in Mississauga along Hurontario near Matheson, and I can assure you there are at least 5 empty lots right within the vicinity of Hurontario in that area, one of which is currently being redeveloped into another McMansion neighborhood. Any regular driver in that area would easily notice the large swathes of semi-farmland/disused parking lots between 401 AND Square One along Hurontario unless you are just totally blind.
Hey i'd love more Transit so I don't know what statement i'm making that wouldn't advocate more transit I'd love a subway system with 10 or 12 lines to rival other cities in Europe but that isn't in the cards right now. There is transit development just not to the degree i'd like. What can I do about it - slit my wrists lol.. Toronto isn't going to disappear because it doesn't have a subway system like Beijing. If anything it simply won't live to its potential of moving people to the degree it could. It'll still grow and people will still move here - the flow just won't be as optimal and more people will support the auto economy than I would certainly like. Lots of cities in the country and in the U.S and elsewhere would also benefit from more transit too. Toronto isn't alone in that regard though the never ending subject of critique for you these days is Toronto.
I'm talking about me and people like me - I'd simply rather live in DT Toronto and walk to all the places in the core that I frequent. When we lived DT we were 5 minutes walk to most of the recreational pursuits we enjoyed in the villiage. Nothing beats that for us and now that UPS is up and running it changes the game for me - especially with the employee discount i'm getting its practically a free return ride.
Anyway, Lots of people live and work DT - is that a crime they like that? No! Are they depressed because they live DT - well ask Botti and the hundreds of thousands who live there - they are probably not depressed lol - far from it. Would they like better transit options to get the more places in the city - sure but they aren't going to do a Tommen Baratheon out the window because of it like it would seem you're almost going to do lol..
I get it you prefer other cities and you prefer Montreal to Toronto. No problem!! Christ on a bike move to Montreal than dude. Case closed. I dunno - perhaps because your job/company is based here you might have to base yourself in Toronto hell... Well - life is short so either quit your job and find something in Montreal that is equivalent or better or work from home in Montreal and come to dreaded Toronto only when you have to for job purposes. Honestly, when you weren't posting in here from what mid 2015 up until just recently and you just dissapeared I thought you had moved along to greener pastures for yourself. Life is too short to torment yourself living in a place you don't like or that doesn't jive well with you. Toronto will do just fine without you and it'll still grow and it'll still be a larger economy than Montreal for as long as both your and I are alive.
As for your corporate offices in Mississauga - I stated in my post that the only part of Mississauga I can think of is in the north of the city closer to the 401. Most of Sauga is developed. There are some empty lots sure - but most isn't undeveloped. If you think that than drive around all of Mississauga. The undeveloped land will be developed and it won't be long. If anything the LRT will enhance that process. Lemme guess though - an LRT in Mississauga is bad simply because its in the GTA - oh my bad. Eglinton Crosstown is bad simply because its in Toronto - right zzzzzzzzz
lol yeah i'm not sure why all these Chi/Toronto threads.. I didn't start it I promise
I'm engaging in the discussion.. I type a lot of emails at work so typing away is just a habit I guess. If I don't stop soon and eat the arepas my partner made for dinner he's going to throw them at me. I don't like them either but if I don't eat em them I have to listen to the whining so rather just eat them and keep the peace
I read every single one! And I'm just usually too lazy to reply!
@bostonkid123, I was wondering where you disappeared to. I thought you might have gone back to Boston.
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I'd love a subway system with 10 or 12 lines to rival other cities in Europe but that isn't in the cards right now. There is transit development just not to the degree i'd like. What can I do about it - slit my wrists lol.. Toronto isn't going to disappear because it doesn't have a subway system like Beijing. If anything it simply won't live to its potential of moving people to the degree it could. It'll still grow and people will still move here - the flow just won't be as optimal and more people will support the auto economy than I would certainly like. Lots of cities in the country and in the U.S and elsewhere would also benefit from more transit too. Toronto isn't alone in that regard though the never ending subject of critique for you these days is Toronto. 
