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We have had Toronto based black rights advocacy groups in the past, namely the Black Action Defense Committee headed by Dudley Laws. They were also called Militant and were formed to fight the exact same injustices that BLM fights against, police brutality and shootings of unarmed black men.
The BADC was very much like the BLM movement, even though I admit the leadership was more polished. Now personally I have my personal issues with the BLMTO leadership. I have a cousin who is pretty high up in the group and her and I have some very candid discussions about the direction they are heading. With that said, I have my reservations about the direction, but I am proud of her for showing some pride in who she is and not taking sh*t for anyone, which we have done in Toronto for too long.
I do not condone the strong armed tactics involving PRIDE at all, but please also look at the awareness this group has brought to residents of Toronto. Carding and police brutality were a regular occurrence for many of us growing up in the city, especially in neighbourhoods like mine. This has been going on for decades, but finally it saw the light of day. So you can have your reservations and still support much of what they stand for. The tactics may not be palatable to most but are necessary at times.
I don't want to conflate the two matters at all. As a group the gay community has always been about inclusion even if we have our differences with the TPS both currently and in the past. Believe me, I have personally had issues with the TPS simply because I am gay but that doesn't mean that suddenly we shut others out. There are already calls within our community to start a new Pride movement to replace Pride Toronto. It is unfortunately that such an illustrious committee in the past has allowed this to happen and I don't think they realize the impact this is having.
As for the black community and leadership there needs to be a new grass roots movement on the local level. I think AJ is right to point out that we shouldn't be leveraging an American movement. Sure they have brought awareness and that is a good thing but the tactics used by and large go too far, especially when the values of other minority groups are impacted. I don't expect black activist group(s) to be a bunch of ninnies but at the same time when stuff like this happens it isn't positive change at all! So, I would hope in the future that the black community finds it within itself to promote issues in the community on a grass roots and local level without resorting to such divisive tactics. I would also hope that the community finds it within itself to become more involved in the municipal political landscape. It certainly has enough numbers to make more political waves than it does. It also doesn't exist in a bubble so I think its important that part of any movements mandate is to actually work with other groups to champion common causes. This will also naturally bring about awareness of individual group issues in a healthy way so that we can promote change from across the spectrum and the weight isn't just on one community.
This is what I keep telling to Botti is that groups in Toronto now have the size and numbers to make REAL change in this city. Enough whining and complaints, snickering and finger pointing - more action and actually get involved to make this a better city. Otherwise all we are ever going to do is complain about not enough bakeries DT or not enough black people in city council - build a damned bakery and run for City council and for god sake open up a worth Jamaican restaurant
I don't want to conflate the two matters at all. As a group the gay community has always been about inclusion even if we have our differences with the TPS both currently and in the past. Believe me, I have personally had issues with the TPS simply because I am gay but that doesn't mean that suddenly we shut others out. There are already calls within our community to start a new Pride movement to replace Pride Toronto. It is unfortunately that such an illustrious committee in the past has allowed this to happen and I don't think they realize the impact this is having.
As for the black community and leadership there needs to be a new grass roots movement on the local level. I think AJ is right to point out that we shouldn't be leveraging an American movement. Sure they have brought awareness and that is a good thing but the tactics used by and large go too far, especially when the values of other minority groups are impacted. I don't expect black activist group(s) to be a bunch of ninnies but at the same time when stuff like this happens it isn't positive change at all! So, I would hope in the future that the black community finds it within itself to promote issues in the community on a grass roots and local level without resorting to such divisive tactics. I would also hope that the community finds it within itself to become more involved in the municipal political landscape. It certainly has enough numbers to make more political waves than it does. It also doesn't exist in a bubble so I think its important that part of any movements mandate is to actually work with other groups to champion common causes. This will also naturally bring about awareness of individual group issues in a healthy way so that we can promote change from across the spectrum and the weight isn't just on one community.
This is what I keep telling to Botti is that groups in Toronto now have the size and numbers to make REAL change in this city. Enough whining and complaints, snickering and finger pointing - more action and actually get involved to make this a better city. Otherwise all we are ever going to do is complain about not enough bakeries DT or not enough black people in city council - build a damned bakery and run for City council and for god sake open up a worth Jamaican restaurant
Not disputing anything you said, I think we are in agreement. I dont condone all the tactics, but just shining some light on what benefit they have also brought to the community.
RE: The bold. Sure, I dont mind that at all. I cant help though, I left and I aint coming back.
Not disputing anything you said, I think we are in agreement. I dont condone all the tactics, but just shining some light on what benefit they have also brought to the community.
RE: The bold. Sure, I dont mind that at all. I cant help though, I left and I aint coming back.
I know you can't help Ed nor am I expecting you too but others who have skin in the game do have to get involved. I respect outsiders' opinions but ultimately those people (with respect) are not the future of this city. They are critics, they are not players.
There is this guy what Is his name Lookyhere - he is constantly smashing Toronto in the world forum in C/D yet he is a long term resident. To me there is zero excuse for that. If you are going to be a resident in this city and this is the place you are going to hang your hat and where your kids are going to grow up in than get involved otherwise i'm really starting to tune out white noise.
I know you can't help Ed nor am I expecting you too but others who have skin in the game do have to get involved. I respect outsiders' opinions but ultimately those people (with respect) are not the future of this city. They are critics, they are not players.
There is this guy what Is his name Lookyhere - he is constantly smashing Toronto in the world forum in C/D yet he is a long term resident. To me there is zero excuse for that. If you are going to be a resident in this city and this is the place you are going to hang your hat and where your kids are going to grow up in than get involved otherwise i'm really starting to tune out white noise.
I dont disagree at all again. You need to get involved, but the criticism is also healthy. Looking for opinions outside of your city is good, it brings a fresh perspective. Especially from people who once lived in Toronto and have some knowledge of the way the city works.
There are some young men and women in Toronto who are getting more involved. Desmond Cole, Knia Singh, Andray Domise, to name a few. I do agree that the change has to come from within, residents are the only ones to make things better, but there is no problem in looking elsewhere for inspiration.
I dont disagree at all again. You need to get involved, but the criticism is also healthy. Looking for opinions outside of your city is good, it brings a fresh perspective. Especially from people who once lived in Toronto and have some knowledge of the way the city works.
There are some young men and women in Toronto who are getting more involved. Desmond Cole, Knia Singh, Andray Domise, to name a few. I do agree that the change has to come from within, residents are the only ones to make things better, but there is no problem in looking elsewhere for inspiration.
First part I totally agree. That is why I said I respect outside or external critique. Actually it is invaluable to get that critique if it is genuine and comes from an honest place! However critique is like problem identification, it is critical but is useless without willing participants to execute it. Its like the PDCA process. I see a lot of problem identification or the idea phase but it just sort of dies from there. No doing let alone checking and acting.
Second part again - totally agreed and let's not fool ourselves - Toronto has a lot of issues like any place but we also have a lot of strengths as well so I think we need to be balanced in both our internal critique but also be appreciative of what we do right. We can also and we do inspire other places but sure, i'm certainly open to looking outside for inspiration. It is critical and I think we do that but we need to continue and expand on that. All said, I think we really could do a lot better than BLM in Toronto. I appreciate their efforts and that wouldn't exist if everything was perfect, I just think we could do better. Desmond Cole should run for office! Especially after this!
Maybe because there is a void in political leadership within the black community, so we have to look elsewhere for guidance. There is really no one in city council in Toronto that can speak for us. Michael Thompson I guess has finally seen the light, but I have a difficult time forgiving him for turning against us when his buddy Fantino was in charge of the Police force.
Thanks for pointing that out. It's a tough spot to be in, I guess.
FTR, Montreal's black community has a similar leadership vacuum. If not a worse one. Obviously there are cultural and other reasons there that lead to certain American solutions and narratives not being imported as easily as in Toronto.
First part I totally agree. That is why I said I respect outside or external critique. Actually it is invaluable to get that critique if it is genuine and comes from an honest place! However critique is like problem identification, it is critical but is useless without willing participants to execute it. Its like the PDCA process. I see a lot of problem identification or the idea phase but it just sort of dies from there. No doing let alone checking and acting.
Second part again - totally agreed and let's not fool ourselves - Toronto has a lot of issues like any place but we also have a lot of strengths as well so I think we need to be balanced in both our internal critique but also be appreciative of what we do right. We can also and we do inspire other places but sure, i'm certainly open to looking outside for inspiration. It is critical and I think we do that but we need to continue and expand on that. All said, I think we really could do a lot better than BLM in Toronto. I appreciate their efforts and that wouldn't exist if everything was perfect, I just think we could do better. Desmond Cole should run for office! Especially after this!
Thanks so much for posting that article. I cant explain how proud I am of my brothers and how they have been standing up for whats right. Its not easy to walk away from a good paying gig.
Thanks for pointing that out. It's a tough spot to be in, I guess.
FTR, Montreal's black community has a similar leadership vacuum. If not a worse one. Obviously there are cultural and other reasons there that lead to certain American solutions and narratives not being imported as easily as in Toronto.
What happens is that you look south to what is being discussed in the media in regards to black rights and all that it encompasses. Then you take a step back and think "Hey, many of our brothers and sisters issues down south are similar to ours up in Canada". Then you gravitate towards that because they are really speaking to your experience. Its difficult to ignore if it truly resonates with you.
But as we discussed above, there are local voices that are really making a difference and standing up for what is right.
Thanks so much for posting that article. I cant explain how proud I am of my brothers and how they have been standing up for whats right. Its not easy to walk away from a good paying gig.
I posted this because I really want to be open about issues in this city. You and everyone here knows I am proud of its accomplishments but we must also be open about its warts - not just the city but in the country. Its the only way we are going to move ahead. Based on what happened to Mr Cole - I really hope to see him in politics. I think he'd be a tremendous and very necessary voice! I fully support 100 percent what he has done re: carding. I think he not only did a tremendous service to his community but also to all Torontonians including my own community. You know well my personal feelings on carding and my personal experience being carded!
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands
But as we discussed above, there are local voices that are really making a difference and standing up for what is right.
It doesn't just have to be black voices to advocate for black issues either. Although I think that the black community naturally must be its own biggest advocate, the rest of us can and need to play a role.
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so true....
