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Exact same situation here in Boston, MA as it is in New York, Washington D.C., San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver, etc. Young professionals live with roommates, at times even up to 4-5 roommates or however many the apartment allows, pay a hefty chunk of their salary for housing, live in less desirable areas, or rent single rooms in a house. I know a few who vow to never leave the big city because it is too exciting and others who give up and move to the far out suburbs and endure long commutes into town. Would you consider living in a lesser city like Hamilton for a change?
It's a matter of supply and demand and more specifically, the Filtering Model of Housing Demand. Wherever a city is in high demand, everyone wants to move there. If there is an increase in supply of high quality housing, people living in moderate housing get to move up (i.e. filter into high quality housing) and they are followed by people living in low quality housing. What you see in Toronto and other popular major cities is that supply has not kept up with demand, people already living in low to moderate housing cannot filter the next highest category, and any newcomers either end up living in lesser quality housing or getting price out of the city completely.
OP what you're talking about is nationwide in the USA..
No, it's not nationwide. It's mostly limited to the expensive coastal metro areas. Places like Chicago & Denver are also expensive, but not at the insane levels of places like Los Angeles, NYC, and the SF Bay Area.
Toronto is the second most expensive city in Canada I believe after Vancouver. But I think the suburbs of Toronto are actually more expensive than the suburbs of Vancouver. I think smaller cities help a lot in saving money if the salary is the same. I don't think Toronto being "less boring" is worth the cost if you end up struggling living there. Some smaller cities may be a better bet even if they are not as interesting as Toronto.
Toronto is the second most expensive city in Canada I believe after Vancouver. But I think the suburbs of Toronto are actually more expensive than the suburbs of Vancouver. I think smaller cities help a lot in saving money if the salary is the same. I don't think Toronto being "less boring" is worth the cost if you end up struggling living there. Some smaller cities may be a better bet even if they are not as interesting as Toronto.
Not really sure about that.
For example I personally know if I lived outside the city I very likely would have slit my wrists. I despise DESPISE soccer mom culture and the whole people obsessed with their kids lives because they dont have a life outside their family. Knowing this about my personal need to quick access to more urban offerings such as noise, lights, more population density, art, theatre, concerts etc I went out of my way to buy a smaller older home that I am fixing up myself over time. I shop for deals, but many things resale and figure ways to cut corners in areas that are less meaningful to me. For example I dint habe $1000 kids partu parties. My family has never purchased a car from a dealership and buy used cars person to person sales cars cash. I di most home renos myself and like that.
I personally do think living in the city is worth it.... but you got to decide what maters more to you. I choose working hours and cutting corners like I mentioned rather then living somewhere that does not have the features I need to feel more content.
I go out somewhere most nights.... if you are someone who does not then living outside the city might not matter so much as you are not using the key features of living in Toronto.
Well, it's a fixed-term contract job on paper, but for the past 1.5 years my contract has been renewed time and again. And I have always been working full-time hours each week. Our team is always short-staffed, so management does not have plans to terminate anybody. The only reason I have been kept on contract is because the company wants to save costs on not having to give benefits to contract employees.
Yes, I am currently looking for another job, one that is full-time and permanent.
Your comment really confirms what I suspected and feared...that most singles have to live with roommates in order to afford the cost of living in Toronto.
I can very well choose to continue living with my parents to save money, but if it's going to take a few years to save for a down payment, I'll be over 30 and still living with my parents. Besides, many people my age do not have this option and need to move out (e.g. their parents kick them out, or their parents are abusive/controlling, etc...). It's a wonder how these people manage to keep afloat if they're not making a grand salary.
Hi, I had to live at home past 30's until I could no longer take the physical and mental abuse of my parents and rent now. My rent take up 70% of my monthly income and I experience difficulty with 2nd job due to poor transit system (always delays) to get to the 2nd job and the low wage of the 2nd job. I struggle to have enough food to eat since I don't have enough money left.
I don't think there is another option but to pay up these extremely high rent fees. At least you have distance yourself from abusive parents/getting kicked out, by cutting them completely out of your life and have the freedom to be who you are.
Hang in there. It is a drastic change of lifestyle, very, very limited entertainment since the rent take up all your money. Visit your local MPP and ask for help, but don't ever go with social assistance because you are entering another continued faze where someone is controlling you again.
If you want to contact me privately, please free to do so. I sense that there is some huge issues at home.
No, it's not nationwide. It's mostly limited to the expensive coastal metro areas. Places like Chicago & Denver are also expensive, but not at the insane levels of places like Los Angeles, NYC, and the SF Bay Area.
Though places like LA, NYC and the Bay Area have very high salaries.
Toronto has low salaries and crazy home prices, so overall is far less affordable than any U.S. metro. In Toronto, decent suburban homes in good neighborhoods go for $1 million+, but incomes are lower than any major U.S. metro.
How do people do it? Double and triple-up, live with family, put off buying, live in smaller spaces, move further out, etc.
For example I personally know if I lived outside the city I very likely would have slit my wrists. I despise DESPISE soccer mom culture and the whole people obsessed with their kids lives because they dont have a life outside their family. Knowing this about my personal need to quick access to more urban offerings such as noise, lights, more population density, art, theatre, concerts etc I went out of my way to buy a smaller older home that I am fixing up myself over time. I shop for deals, but many things resale and figure ways to cut corners in areas that are less meaningful to me. For example I dint habe $1000 kids partu parties. My family has never purchased a car from a dealership and buy used cars person to person sales cars cash. I di most home renos myself and like that.
I personally do think living in the city is worth it.... but you got to decide what maters more to you. I choose working hours and cutting corners like I mentioned rather then living somewhere that does not have the features I need to feel more content.
I go out somewhere most nights.... if you are someone who does not then living outside the city might not matter so much as you are not using the key features of living in Toronto.
I just feel those things will get old really quick. I would rather save the money and travel to these big exciting cities every year than live in them and not have enough money to travel. I would rather live in a mid-sized city. Sure they aren't exciting as Toronto but you can save a lot of money. And there are always ways you can entertain yourself in cities smaller than Toronto.
Though places like LA, NYC and the Bay Area have very high salaries.
Toronto has low salaries and crazy home prices, so overall is far less affordable than any U.S. metro. In Toronto, decent suburban homes in good neighborhoods go for $1 million+, but incomes are lower than any major U.S. metro.
How do people do it? Double and triple-up, live with family, put off buying, live in smaller spaces, move further out, etc.
Absolutely!
In Mississauga, a home was purchased in the 80's for $350,000 and now can be sold for million dollars. The income did not increase to the cost of living and for some, the income has dropped. I have seen financial documents where people remain to have a full-time job, but the company sold their employees to employment agencies and the earning has dropped to nearly minimum wage and these are for some who do very qualified, serious work.
Something has to change for the better and I have yet to have seen the improvement since the last political elections with every level.
I just feel those things will get old really quick. I would rather save the money and travel to these big exciting cities every year than live in them and not have enough money to travel. I would rather live in a mid-sized city. Sure they aren't exciting as Toronto but you can save a lot of money. And there are always ways you can entertain yourself in cities smaller than Toronto.
Both options are do able, but she needs to figure it which would work best for her. I found out what I prefer based on my own experiences. I know I don't want to live in the downtown core, but want to be a quick train ride away. I hated living in North Toronto and know I get sick to my stomach when I visit freinds and family that live outside of Toronto. They just work ... cook......clean and sleep. The high light of their year is plannng a kids birthday party. I need more action the that and could plan a party like that in my sleep. She needs to decide what works for her desired life style.
If you play your cards right you can still live in a major city and travel. I do....my brother does and makes less then 50 k. You just need to be creative. Also want to mention I feel bad for people that lack supportive parents/ extended family. Your situations are tricky. Though my parents can't likely afford to pay for my bills....even as a adult with my own family if I could no longer afford to live on my own my parents would let us stay with them indefinitely with no strings attached even if space as tight. Not sure what's up with people that are not willing to help their kids outs. If you have supportive parents make sure you thank them because sadly not everyone does.
That income is low in Toronto only because housing/ renting costs are high. If I was in your shoes knowing what I do now I would live at home for a bit to save up for a down payment on something then get a room mate or rent oyt part of the space. If dibe wisely you could have a really large part of your cost covered by the parts of the property/ hone that you rent out. The first year of being married in Toronto my husband me and our baby were living in one bedroom in my patents house. It was trucky... but the free rent helped us save up to buy a house.
To be honest, I don't think I really have the option of living with my parents for much longer. Nevermind that I'll be 27 soon and 30 isn't far away, but there are lots of issues between them and I (that I don't want to elaborate too much on here). Briefly, they were abusive until I was 19 when I moved out for the first time to go to university in a different city. Two years later, however, I had to move back home and transfer to my local university when I was laid off from my job and couldn't pay my rent & tuition (the OSAP amount I was qualified for was pitifully low since my parents made too much). Suddenly, when I came back, they became much nicer to me, but I've developed a degree of PTSD and find I get very mentally stressed when I'm around them for too long. Also, for the past couple of years they're slowly but surely starting to get worse again, as they always criticize and try to pick a fight with me whenever we're around each other for too long (mostly my dad; my mom just ignores it and tells me to deal with it). They're also very controlling (down to the minutiae of my life, like what I do in my free time, what and when I eat, etc...). It gets so bad that I often avoid being at home whenever they're there or still awake. After work I would just sleep in my car until the next day, after they've left for work, just to avoid them. Sure, they haven't explicitly told me to move out, but regardless we just don't get along.
In short, I really need to move out soon as I place more importance on my psychological peace of mind than my finances, when it comes down to it. I was just wondering how others with "average" salaries in Toronto get by, paying rent on their own. Seems like a paycheck-to-paycheck existence, unless they hitch up with roommates into their middle age. It's depressing.
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