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Old 01-21-2021, 11:05 PM
 
25 posts, read 5,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
Dang, this thread still going strong after 12 years...

I think a consensus was reached...

Toronto is colder than New York. It's not a lot colder, but it's noticeably colder. Winters may be a couple weeks longer in Toronto as well, with freezing temps coming about two week earlier and warming up about two weeks later. So about an extra month of wintry weather in Toronto compared to New York and colder average temps.
I mean, it is colder, on average, in every month relative to NYC, to the point that the two fall in kind of different climate types - NYC, on the poleward boundary of the humid subtropical regime in North America - Toronto, on the northern edge of the hot summer humid continental climate regime in North America, bordering the warm summer type. They're different.

For one, the snow line is above NYC - so snow doesn't stick around for much more than a day except in extreme winters. That's in contrast to Toronto...
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Old 01-21-2021, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Etobicoke
274 posts, read 83,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicinterest View Post
I mean, it is colder, on average, in every month relative to NYC, to the point that the two fall in kind of different climate types - NYC, on the poleward boundary of the humid subtropical regime in North America - Toronto, on the northern edge of the hot summer humid continental climate regime in North America, bordering the warm summer type. They're different.

For one, the snow line is above NYC - so snow doesn't stick around for much more than a day except in extreme winters. That's in contrast to Toronto...
I think snow line means averaging measurable snow at least one day a year, that line will fall in the southeastern US along the middle of Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, etc. New York get's way more than the minimum. Also Toronto is near the southern edge of the warm-summer type climate (Dfb) when using it's proper station - Pearson airport. New York's subtropical status is strongly disputed and Koppen himself never called it (Cfa) "subtropical", rather a mesothermal transitional climate. I think the subtropical boundary is in Washington DC at northernmost limit and most people in the weather forum here disagrees with New York being subtropical.
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Old 01-22-2021, 01:35 AM
 
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The difference in winter temperatures is greater between Ottawa and Toronto than it is between NYC and Toronto. Having said that NYC is still technically slightly warmer Toronto in the winter. Only by about 3 degrees on average. That's the best way to look at it.

I always find it funny how Americans complain about how cold winter gets in NYC even though it is warmer than any other Canadian city apart from the pacific coast. NYC is technically warmer than even the southernmost cities in Ontario during the winter.

Fun Fact: The difference in winter temperature between Toronto and Ottawa is greater than the difference between NYC and Vancouver.
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Old 01-22-2021, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
24,335 posts, read 30,574,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM10 View Post
The difference in winter temperatures is greater between Ottawa and Toronto than it is between NYC and Toronto. Having said that NYC is still technically slightly warmer Toronto in the winter. Only by about 3 degrees on average. That's the best way to look at it.
I did a quick check and apples to apples (Central Park vs. downtown Toronto, Pearson vs. La Guardia) and the difference in the daily 24-hour average is more like 5-6C to New York's advantage.

I agree that it's not as much as some might think, but I also think that it makes a bigger difference in several ways if the temperature difference in the 24-hour average puts one city "safely" below freezing most of the time, as opposed to two cities both being above freezing with one at say 3C on average and the other at 6C.

I also checked Montreal. It's comparable stations (downtown or airport) tend to be around 4C colder than Toronto's in the winter.
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Old 01-23-2021, 06:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancerman View Post
I think snow line means averaging measurable snow at least one day a year, that line will fall in the southeastern US along the middle of Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, etc. New York get's way more than the minimum. Also Toronto is near the southern edge of the warm-summer type climate (Dfb) when using it's proper station - Pearson airport. New York's subtropical status is strongly disputed and Koppen himself never called it (Cfa) "subtropical", rather a mesothermal transitional climate. I think the subtropical boundary is in Washington DC at northernmost limit and most people in the weather forum here disagrees with New York being subtropical.
Koppen always called the climate subtropical - it's never been called anything different in it's English translation.

This board doesn't decide climate - just because a few cold-obsessed city-data forum-ers are obsessed with redefining America's climate to being colder than it is (I've seen the weird threads trying to insist that places like South Carolina have a borderline continental climate) doesn't mean anything. These prove that many of the posters on here have anything but a rational or objective view of climate.

The line for snow-pack development (one of the major reasons for the -3/0 C limit for humid subtropical) is WAY ABOVE the deep south (Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi) - these states don't at all average any amount of measurable snow. Averaging measurable snow does not equate to measuring some snow. Places like Memphis hardly measure much measurable snow at all.

The isotherms are set to define, in part, the potential build up of snow on the ground - snow pack. NYC averages more snow than the typical, more southerly subtropical climate does, but it still doesn't see significant, multi-day snow pack aside from an extreme winter every now and then.

Chicago? That's a more comparable climate to Toronto.

Do Chinese posters have raging debates about whether Qingdao is subtropical or not? I don't care what some cold-obsessed city-data-ers say. You're being kind of ridiculous. New York is humid subtropical under both the 0 and -3 C isotherms. Period.
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Old 01-23-2021, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Etobicoke
274 posts, read 83,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicinterest View Post
Koppen always called the climate subtropical - it's never been called anything different in it's English translation.

This board doesn't decide climate - just because a few cold-obsessed city-data forum-ers are obsessed with redefining America's climate to being colder than it is (I've seen the weird threads trying to insist that places like South Carolina have a borderline continental climate) doesn't mean anything. These prove that many of the posters on here have anything but a rational or objective view of climate.

The line for snow-pack development (one of the major reasons for the -3/0 C limit for humid subtropical) is WAY ABOVE the deep south (Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi) - these states don't at all average any amount of measurable snow. Averaging measurable snow does not equate to measuring some snow. Places like Memphis hardly measure much measurable snow at all.

The isotherms are set to define, in part, the potential build up of snow on the ground - snow pack. NYC averages more snow than the typical, more southerly subtropical climate does, but it still doesn't see significant, multi-day snow pack aside from an extreme winter every now and then.

Chicago? That's a more comparable climate to Toronto.

Do Chinese posters have raging debates about whether Qingdao is subtropical or not? I don't care what some cold-obsessed city-data-ers say. You're being kind of ridiculous. New York is humid subtropical under both the 0 and -3 C isotherms. Period.
That's your opinion. Koppen is not the only system that used in climate, I agree with some parts of it. I usually follow Trewartha, it will not put New York in subtropical as it does not have 8 months averaging 10 C or above. This is a very heated debate and will not be resolved anytime soon. One I'll say though is that these New York and Toronto comparisons got to end, it's not that close.
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Old 01-25-2021, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Toronto
2,069 posts, read 3,125,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicinterest View Post
I mean, it is colder, on average, in every month relative to NYC, to the point that the two fall in kind of different climate types - NYC, on the poleward boundary of the humid subtropical regime in North America - Toronto, on the northern edge of the hot summer humid continental climate regime in North America, bordering the warm summer type. They're different.

For one, the snow line is above NYC - so snow doesn't stick around for much more than a day except in extreme winters. That's in contrast to Toronto...
I think my post said pretty much the same thing you wrote in your reply.

I wrote that Toronto has longer, colder winters than New York. My post was pretty clear about them having different climates. At the same time, they’re not THAT different. The northern suburbs of New York have the same climate classification as Toronto, and the mean temperature difference of NYC is about 3*C warmer than Toronto. It is a noticeable difference, but it is not a big difference.

So yeah, New York is warmer, but being at the northernmost boundary of the humid subtropical climate zone, it’s not like the difference between, say, Toronto and Winnipeg or New York and Tokyo. New York has cold winters and warm summers, like Toronto, although a few degrees warmer on average. New York can have snowy winters and cold snaps with temps below -10*C just like Toronto, although the cold snaps are fewer and don’t have the potential to be as severe as in Toronto. Both cities also have heat waves in the summer, with temperatures exceeding 30*C, although New York’s heat waves are often hotter and can last longer. Both cities have four distinct seasons.

So...I’m not sure what your point is. What did I write in my post that you disagree with?
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Old 02-04-2021, 07:29 AM
 
47 posts, read 11,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
not slightly.
In the winter (Dec-Apr), Toronto is usually and consistently 5-10 degrees colder than NYC.
No it's not. Toronto is about 4 degrees colder than NYC on average each month from December to April. When temperatures dip down -12C in Toronto, NYC can also get down to -8C ~ -9C at the same time. When temperatures rise to around 6C in NYC, it can also warm up to 2-3C in Toronto.
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