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In these discussions we've had over the years, it was initially shocking to me to hear the life experiences of some people and how it was common for them to experience violent deaths in their entourage - in Canada.
No different then kids from working class families that had relatives, freinds and neighbors in the hells or rock machine back in the 90s. I would say that war was worse than anything that has gone down in Toronto.
Luis - I don't completely disagree with your points. I am not going to sit here and say that black kids have no out in Toronto, when I am a black kid that did exactly that, get out of my neighborhood.
I also know that every kid that gets involved in criminal activity, is not doing it to "act hard". We need to accept the fact that black residents, specifically black males in Toronto are less likely to graduate from HS, more likely to be shot or murdered, less likely to have gainful employment, and have worse health outcomes than white residents despite a single-payer HC system.
I saw this play out in my own family. We had both parents in our lives, hard-working people who were relegated to working menial jobs because Canadian employers did not respect their experience back in their home country. That resulted in taking on multiple jobs and working late hours just to get by and hopefully move us out of our neighborhood.
My sisters and I ended up staying out of trouble and eventually went on to working professional jobs and attending so-called "prestigious" Universities. I have a sister that is a Scientist in Berlin and another who is an Attorney in NYC. I have done well for myself as well.
We also have a brother that got caught up with the wrong crowd and fast money. He did a stretch in an Ontario prison for a violent crime and since getting out has had a difficult time finding well-paying work due to his record. Now was my brother "trying to be a gangster, to be cool?" Maybe that is a sliver of it, but it also was the path that a lot of my friends and family in Toronto took. So he went down that path because it's statistically easier for a black kid from a poor neighborhood to get caught up in that, than a kid that grew up upper-middle class.
Now would we "bat 100" so to speak when it comes to family success if my parents had been given an opportunity to exit that area earlier and live a middle-class life earlier than later? We eventually did just that, but my brothers' issues preceded that jump up in classes.
So when speaking about these issues, you need to also take into conside
ration that it hardly ever is as simple as "I wanna look cool and be on the next Real Toronto video".
Sorry to heat about your bro, I hope hes doing better now....Sure it happens. I know of a few cases of people that have fallen throught the cracks. Even a few from wealthy families. I had a childhood freind from deep south end Halifax, came from a good home and ended up in British Columbia selling drugs and did a stretch in Prison. Not sure what exactly went wrong with him after junior high but I know at one point he became enamoured with a certain life style.
I think part of the problem is as minorites (fairly new ones in this country) youngsters are having a hard time finding a footing in Canada, finding an identity as a Canadian. And I don't mean just the black community, as a latino we also get American stereotypes placed on us here and sadly too many youngsters are willing to run with it because they think its cool. We need to push back on that.
No different then kids from working class families that had relatives, freinds and neighbors in the hells or rock machine back in the 90s. I would say that war was worse than anything that has gone down in Toronto.
I get your point but I'd argue it's a bit different. The biker wars were more concentrated within that milieu and didn't affect largish areas of the city or ethno-cultural communities that much.
With a tiny number of exceptions (of course, one springs to mind especially) kids and even teenagers were not victimized by the violence.
The issues that Edward describes (and which are still present today) are more community and widespread in nature. Whatever the original reasons for it taking root, it's almost become a cultural thing at this point. (Sorry if people find that offensive.)
Biker gang trouble wasn't something average kids got into just from living in a specific neighbourhood or being part of community X or Y.
Edward has given his own example of how the problems in certain parts of Toronto can infiltrate even the best families with good parents who do all the right things.
Trouble is there right outside your door. Despite your best efforts. As a parent I can't imagine how frustrating and hopeless that must feel. (Being a parent is challenging enough even under the best circumstances.)
I get your point but I'd argue it's a bit different. The biker wars were more concentrated within that milieu and didn't affect largish areas of the city or ethno-cultural communities that much.
I wasn't talking about kids being involved directly, I was talking about them seeing it happen around them. Anyone who around then knows that the biker war did have an impact on the city. In some areas more than others.
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Biker gang trouble wasn't something average kids got into just from living in a specific neighbourhood or being part of community X or Y.
That is debatable.
In anycase there has not been a gang war in Toronto as deadly the Hells vs Rock machine war in Montreal.
John Polanyi I assume? I don't know your age TOkidd, but I assume you may have not been teaching when it was Bathurst Heights.
I also assume you are speaking about Abshir? If so, he was a friend of mine and I was at his funeral service.
I respect that you worked in the area, it cant be the easiest place to teach. I also don't blame you for moving on as some of these kids are wired in a different way.
The redevelopment will help I hope, but the problems are deeper than just housing-related and I hope that the investment in the community won't end there.
Yup, John Polanyi I never taught there when it was Bathurst Heights.
It actually closed for a few years, pre-2013, because it gained such a bad score and reputation that there weren’t enough students to maintain it. Students opted to go to other local schools. When I was there, it had recently re-opened and there were definitely challenges. It needed a firmer hand and some vision to make it into more than it was. Unfortunately, the board doesn’t seem to send their best and brightest to schools like John Polanyi. It could be a good school and a vital community hub, considering its proximity to the neighborhood.
I somewhat agree, but with a crime rate that is 100% higher than the national average and a violent crime rate 50% higher than the national average, I wouldn't exactly refer to it as "not dangerous".
The violence is towards each other. For the average person walking through there is no real danger. It should also be noted that th violence is almost 100 percent not gun related.
The violence is towards each other. For the average person walking through there is no real danger. It should also be noted that th violence is almost 100 percent not gun related.
Speaking of Vancouver it has been in the news quite a bit over the past few months for gang related shootings. Seems to be mostly taking place in the suburbs though.
Speaking of Vancouver it has been in the news quite a bit over the past few months for gang related shootings. Seems to be mostly taking place in the suburbs though.
Nothing new.
Every few years there rival gangs go at it. The total was 15 gang related killings in the whole Metro area.
Vancouver proper has had 10 homicides this year so far, including any gang related ones.
I see alot of the people arrested in these shooting in the past seem to come from solidly middle class families.
These gangs for the most part, are not made up of people who get into the drug trade because they are poor.
They are usually recruited at a young age, targeting young men who are looking for acceptance of some sort.
By the time they realize it might not be for them, it's too late.
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I never taught there when it was Bathurst Heights. 
