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Old 01-23-2010, 03:20 PM
 
75,304 posts, read 102,892,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkgg7 View Post
Isn't the answer straightforward enough?
1) Canada has far less wealth difference between the rich and the poor. The lower class has been generally taken good care of. In the US, bankers, lawyers and doctors make way too much money than they really deserve, how can poor people don't feel tremendous grudge?
2) Canada has fewer racial issues than the US. In major Canadian cities, the population is dominated by Whites and East Asians, both tend to cause less violent crimes. I know it doesn't sound "nice" and many will jump out and say something noble. But in the end we all know it is true.

Just look at any country/city with very high or low crime rate, usually these two factors play decisive roles.
A lot of times race and economics are connected. So, when people look at crime, they should look at real causes and not just who commits what crime. You also have to open up the view of crime. Meaning, does it make a difference as to how you die if it is from a shot or a drunk driver?
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:34 PM
 
Location: toronto
87 posts, read 377,787 times
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The Greater Toronto Area is about 5.1 million.
But land mass wise Chicagoland is almost double in size, if you were to actually take in account the amount of land in Chicagoland, it would be equivilant to the "Golden Horseshoe" area in Ontario.

So population wise, it is almost identical.
Truth is Chicago has alot more income disparity, and Toronto really dosent have any major gangs, way fewer guns, we also dont have large segregated neighborhoods(economically, racially)

Most neighborhoods in Toronto, you can find fairly expensive homes on the same block as government subsidized housing. I know in all my schools, their were kids who's parents where accountants, bankers, judges, as well as kids whos parents were on welfare, and most neighborhoods are ethnically very diverse. Even in areas where one ethnic group may dominate, they rarely make up more than 50% of the pop. despite what you think.(areas along bathurst that are 30% jewish, etc)
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:17 AM
 
276 posts, read 711,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426 View Post
Why Toronto and other Canadian cities crime rates are so low compare to US cities? I looked at Toronto stats, and they have 2.5 million people with less than 100 murders every year on average; compare with Chicago 2.9 million people with over 400 murders every year. What is Toronto and other Canadian cities are doing to keep there cities safer than Chicago and other U.S. cities?
Because all the politicians, judges, and police are criminals, they're the only ones working together and the honest people sit on the side lines going hungry!
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:57 AM
 
705 posts, read 1,792,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
A lot of times race and economics are connected. So, when people look at crime, they should look at real causes and not just who commits what crime. You also have to open up the view of crime. Meaning, does it make a difference as to how you die if it is from a shot or a drunk driver?
You are right. However, no matter what the cause is, there is little we can do about it, at least during our life time. In addition, you implied that certain groups committed more crime BECAUSE of their economic situation. however if it were true, any countries even much poorer than these minority groups within the US, say Vietnam and Laos should see even higher crime rates than say Detroit, Michigan. But it is not the case I suppose.

I believe there is some fundamental difference among different groups of people. Some ethnic groups are generally not violent by nature. When they have no money, they work harder even willing to accept lower wages than others just to get by and hoping by worker harder than everyone else, they will eventually do better. They won't even for a second think of robbing strangers. And when they have some extra money, they save it and use it all on the education of the next generation so that they will have a easier life, instead of buying liquors and fried chickens immediately just to have a happy day, and content with their children playing on the street.

Have seen a 30 year old healthy Chinese or Korean male with all four limbs begging for money on the street in the US or Canada? No, I have never seen that. Because when they have no money, they are willing to work for whatever crappy restaurants for whatever mean boss for 14 hours a day for a petty wage of $8 an hour, and they end up not having to beg or rob. But apparently others think begging or robbing is so much easier and waiting in nasty restaurants.

So don't blame the society for our own economic status, and look more at how hard I worked to deserve a decent life others now possess. We can't assume life should be easy and when it is not, it must be the fault of the society or the others. Just look at the academic performance in US high schools by different ethnic groups. These kids are already in the same school (so the quality of education is the same), but some have always done MUCH WORSE than others. Who is to blame when they grow up and end up making tenth of what the top students make? I would call that fair.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:43 PM
 
75,304 posts, read 102,892,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkgg7 View Post
You are right. However, no matter what the cause is, there is little we can do about it, at least during our life time. In addition, you implied that certain groups committed more crime BECAUSE of their economic situation. however if it were true, any countries even much poorer than these minority groups within the US, say Vietnam and Laos should see even higher crime rates than say Detroit, Michigan. But it is not the case I suppose.

I believe there is some fundamental difference among different groups of people. Some ethnic groups are generally not violent by nature. When they have no money, they work harder even willing to accept lower wages than others just to get by and hoping by worker harder than everyone else, they will eventually do better. They won't even for a second think of robbing strangers. And when they have some extra money, they save it and use it all on the education of the next generation so that they will have a easier life, instead of buying liquors and fried chickens immediately just to have a happy day, and content with their children playing on the street.

Have seen a 30 year old healthy Chinese or Korean male with all four limbs begging for money on the street in the US or Canada? No, I have never seen that. Because when they have no money, they are willing to work for whatever crappy restaurants for whatever mean boss for 14 hours a day for a petty wage of $8 an hour, and they end up not having to beg or rob. But apparently others think begging or robbing is so much easier and waiting in nasty restaurants.

So don't blame the society for our own economic status, and look more at how hard I worked to deserve a decent life others now possess. We can't assume life should be easy and when it is not, it must be the fault of the society or the others. Just look at the academic performance in US high schools by different ethnic groups. These kids are already in the same school (so the quality of education is the same), but some have always done MUCH WORSE than others. Who is to blame when they grow up and end up making tenth of what the top students make? I would call that fair.
Actually, to compare different groups is tough considering factors like history and many other complex factors.

Second, there are SE Asian groups in the US with some of the highest poverty rates and have areas where they are in gangs(i.e.- there are Hmong gangs in the Twin Cities for example). So, you have to break things down a bit more sometimes.

Third to compare, those two countries to poverty in the US is odd. I feel it would be safe to say that the standards of economics between the three countries would be quite different and would be comparing apples to oranges.

Fourth, I think you are underestimating the reality of crimes in which the people know each other and the lifestyle is most likely similar to the same. For instance, in the area I live in, that seems to be the case.

Lastly, my point about crimes was in regards to how people just view crime in terms of violent crimes, but seem to overlook something like drunk driving, which historically has killed just as many people in the US and I'm sure quite a few in Canada also. If I were to guess what group is mostly responsible for that type of crime, it would most likely be the larger group. Hence, my comment about putting crime into perspective, as it doesn't make either way to die any better than the other.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
1,049 posts, read 6,235,028 times
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Of course, you can turn this question around and instead of asking "why is crime in Toronto so low?" ask, "why is crime in US cities like Chicago so high?"
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:16 PM
 
4,282 posts, read 15,194,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robynator View Post
Of course, you can turn this question around and instead of asking "why is crime in Toronto so low?" ask, "why is crime in US cities like Chicago so high?"

But we're not gonna do that here cuz this is a the Toronto forum, right?
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:17 PM
 
64,920 posts, read 54,889,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkgg7 View Post
Isn't the answer straightforward enough?
1) Canada has far less wealth difference between the rich and the poor. The lower class has been generally taken good care of. In the US, bankers, lawyers and doctors make way too much money than they really deserve, how can poor people don't feel tremendous grudge?
2) Canada has fewer racial issues than the US. In major Canadian cities, the population is dominated by Whites and East Asians, both tend to cause less violent crimes. I know it doesn't sound "nice" and many will jump out and say something noble. But in the end we all know it is true.

Just look at any country/city with very high or low crime rate, usually these two factors play decisive roles.
As far as race issues go, Toronto has the largest Black population in Canada and its crime rate is very low.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Home of the best seafood
645 posts, read 1,392,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkgg7 View Post
Isn't the answer straightforward enough?
1) Canada has far less wealth difference between the rich and the poor. The lower class has been generally taken good care of. In the US, bankers, lawyers and doctors make way too much money than they really deserve, how can poor people don't feel tremendous grudge?
2) Canada has fewer racial issues than the US. In major Canadian cities, the population is dominated by Whites and East Asians, both tend to cause less violent crimes. I know it doesn't sound "nice" and many will jump out and say something noble. But in the end we all know it is true.

Just look at any country/city with very high or low crime rate, usually these two factors play decisive roles.
That's true
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:47 AM
 
2 posts, read 6,901 times
Reputation: 13
Thumbs up Strict gun laws account for low Crime?

Interesting discussion and theory. This is my two cents worth:

A) Although some models are prohibited, it is not difficult to legally get a fire arm in Canada. Take a course, pass the test, and your permit is mailed to you. then go to a store and buy a gun. I doubt it is more difficult to get one in Canada than in the US. (You can't take your hand gun off your property with out a special permit.)

B) Tighter gun controls in Canada have had no impact on crime rates. The recent tighter controls were an expensive

C) Some countries have completely banned firearms and it has had no impact on crime involving guns. (EG Jamacia) Cites such as Chicago banned hand guns yet the city is full of them. (And when the police riddle an innocent person with a dozen or more bullet holes nobody says guns caused that).

D) 99% of households in St John's Newfoundland have a firearm, yet that city has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

E) Hypothesis: Countries with low crime rates have a justice system that is generally trusted by the population. Countries that have high crime rates have a justice system that is untrusted by many people in the population. And that lack of trust contributes to people trying to solve their problems themselves (via violence) instead of going to the police. I think you will find that a lot of crime in US Cities is committed by people who do not trust the justice system (and they don't trust it because of a history of discrimination).

F) So my two cents worth is crime rates are lower in Toronto because the justice system is more trust worthy and people will use it instead of trying to solve serious problems on their own. Having said that, I must say that the Toronto police are not pristine and nobody should expect utopia.

G) People who think anti gun laws will solve crime are mistaken. Claiming that guns cause crime is like saying cars cause high speed bank robbery getaways; nobody blames the car for the high speed chase. If you want to reduce crime in your city you need to increase trust in your justice system.
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