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Once you said Canada has a socialised medical system your credibility was close to zero with me. Canada has a universal healthcare system, not socialised healthcare system. The government does not approve your medical treatment, they only fund it.
Oh yeah, I also live in the U.S. but spent the first 30 years of my life in Canada. Based on what I have seen, have experienced and have had friends experience the Canadian system is light years ahead of the U.S. Given Canada is a democracy don't you think the citizens would have voted to get rid of the system if it was no good?
Finally if a universal healthcare system is so bad, why is the U.S. the only G-8 country without it? Are the other 7 wrong?
Yes, my friend, they fund it. That's why cancer drug treatments are years ahead in the US.
And that's why people in pain have to wait months for an MRI.
And that's why people have to wait months and sometimes years for knee and hip replacements. Because the government funds it.
And that's why hundreds of Canadians every week travel to the US to get treatment, rather than suffer for months.
And that's why a couple from a border community haven't seen their newborn yet. Because their regional Canadian hospital had no neonatal beds, so they had to ship the newborn to a US hospital.
The parents have no passports, so they can't be with their kid. But at least the baby's alive.
Three countries in the world have a single-payer totally government-funded system. Canada, North Korea and Cuba. All the other G-8 countries have some mix of government and private. Regardless of the propaganda, Cuban health care for Cubans is dreadful. We all know about North Korea. But the building crisis in Canadian health care seems to elude people who haven't lived under it.
I have private extended health coverage because the government doesn't cover everything. Every year, they de-list more and more. If you can't afford private health insurance or cash payments for, say a PSA test, you do without.
How's that for Canadian healthcare?
So before you get confrontational, do some research.
Yes, my friend, they fund it. That's why cancer drug treatments are years ahead in the US.
And that's why people in pain have to wait months for an MRI.
And that's why people have to wait months and sometimes years for knee and hip replacements. Because the government funds it.
And that's why hundreds of Canadians every week travel to the US to get treatment, rather than suffer for months.
And that's why a couple from a border community haven't seen their newborn yet. Because their regional Canadian hospital had no neonatal beds, so they had to ship the newborn to a US hospital.
The parents have no passports, so they can't be with their kid. But at least the baby's alive.
Three countries in the world have a single-payer totally government-funded system. Canada, North Korea and Cuba. All the other G-8 countries have some mix of government and private. Regardless of the propaganda, Cuban health care for Cubans is dreadful. We all know about North Korea. But the building crisis in Canadian health care seems to elude people who haven't lived under it.
I have private extended health coverage because the government doesn't cover everything. Every year, they de-list more and more. If you can't afford private health insurance or cash payments for, say a PSA test, you do without.
How's that for Canadian healthcare?
So before you get confrontational, do some research.
I need to do some research? FYI I used to be a healthcare researcher and have published papers in the healthcare arena. Issues such as accessibility, comparison's to other countries systems were just some of the topics I investigated on behalf of clients and agencies.
Hrm, my friend had an MRI within 24 hours of it being requested (no not Toronto) because the doctor needed to confirm a diagnosis. Treatment began within a week. Same story with my aunt etc.
You might want to do some research yourself. Specifically look at the healthcare system in France, The Netherlands, The U.K. and tell me they are not government funded?
Oh yeah, I do love the exaggeration of hundreds of people needing to go to the US every week for treatment. Do folks head to the U.S. - of course, but I also know Americans who come to Canada. I also love the 1 example of premature baby who has to be accommodated in Detroit because of access issues to neonatal care. What you don't mention is the folks in the U.S. who don't even get a chance to get treatment because they can't afford it, or the ones dumped on skid row in L.A. Examples of extreme situations happen in every country but then again if you wanted to highlight that, it would take away from the argument that the Canadian Healthcare system sucks.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,763,471 times
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The Canadian system is a good system but the US system is a better system IF you have the money or the right insurance and IF the insurance will approve your treatements. Otherwise the US system really sucks!
I need to do some research? FYI I used to be a healthcare researcher and have published papers in the healthcare arena.
Good for you, my friend. Another monetizer living off the healthcare system. Why would you bite the hand that feeds you?
Hrm, my friend had an MRI within 24 hours of it being requested (no not Toronto) because the doctor needed to confirm a diagnosis. Treatment began within a week. Same story with my aunt etc.
Most likely because they were enrolled in a system, WSIB or private insurance that put them to the front of the line. I don't have that advantage. My right ear has been clogged since March. I experience vertigo and ear pain. My specialist appointment is July 29. I pray that my hearing isn't permanently affected.
My research shows that specialists are so overbooked that if it isn't life or death, they book months in advance. They hope that the problem will go away by itself. Family physicians face salary caps. They hit the cap and holiday for the rest of the year.
In Ontario the government will pay for PSA tests only if the patient already has prostate cancer.
So many specialists were leaving Canada that the government won't cap them. But there still is a specialist shortage. Surgeries are postponed every day because an anesthetist, or a surgeon, or a bed, or something else, isn't available.
You might want to do some research yourself. Specifically look at the healthcare system in France, The Netherlands, The U.K. and tell me they are not government funded?
Of course they are government funded. But they are not like the systems in Canada, Cuba and North Korea. Those European countries are smart enough to affix a private system onto the public system. They are smart enough to understand that if the client is not the payer, abuse of the system is endemic. Canadians--especially Quebecers, have finally figured that out and are allowing private clinics.
(snip) What you don't mention is the folks in the U.S. who don't even get a chance to get treatment because they can't afford it, or the ones dumped on skid row in L.A. Examples of extreme situations happen in every country but then again if you wanted to highlight that, it would take away from the argument that the Canadian Healthcare system sucks. [/quote]
U.S. federal law requires that hospitals treat everyone who enters. All in the US must get treatment by law. Once they are stabilized, then, they may have to leave. This expense is breaking the American system. So may illegals are getting free healthcare, they are sqeezing out citizen care.
On the other hand, visit a Toronto hospital. You'll see patients in beds in hallways for days because patients in rooms waiting for chronic care have no place to be moved. The money shortage has cut into chronic care beds, so people who should be demitted from hospitals have to occupy acute care beds.
Talk to Ontario ambulance drivers who must stay with patients until they are admitted. This can take many hours. So the ambulance is out of service.
There's some more research for you, free of charge. Now go write a paper.
This argument is closed. I have better ways to spend my time. Like taking a couple of ASAs for my ear pain.
Last edited by V65Magnafan; 07-07-2009 at 06:12 AM..
Yes, my friend, they fund it. That's why cancer drug treatments are years ahead in the US.
And that's why people in pain have to wait months for an MRI.
And that's why people have to wait months and sometimes years for knee and hip replacements. Because the government funds it.
And that's why hundreds of Canadians every week travel to the US to get treatment, rather than suffer for months.
And that's why a couple from a border community haven't seen their newborn yet. Because their regional Canadian hospital had no neonatal beds, so they had to ship the newborn to a US hospital.
The parents have no passports, so they can't be with their kid. But at least the baby's alive.
Three countries in the world have a single-payer totally government-funded system. Canada, North Korea and Cuba. All the other G-8 countries have some mix of government and private. Regardless of the propaganda, Cuban health care for Cubans is dreadful. We all know about North Korea. But the building crisis in Canadian health care seems to elude people who haven't lived under it.
I have private extended health coverage because the government doesn't cover everything. Every year, they de-list more and more. If you can't afford private health insurance or cash payments for, say a PSA test, you do without.
How's that for Canadian healthcare?
So before you get confrontational, do some research.
The only people who suffer in Canada are hypochondriacs that insist on getting a MRI done without a good medical reason other than a headache that they are convinced is due to an invisible tumour. Those are the people who wait months. I had cancer in Canada and everything was done next day including MRIs. It is a prioritized system so that people who need it get it and the people who are just trying to waste taxpayers dollars wait until the end of the line. Anyone with acute need is dealt with just as quickly here as they would be in the U.S.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,763,471 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Derf
The only people who suffer in Canada are hypochondriacs that insist on getting a MRI done without a good medical reason other than a headache that they are convinced is due to an invisible tumour. Those are the people who wait months. I had cancer in Canada and everything was done next day including MRIs. It is a prioritized system so that people who need it get it and the people who are just trying to waste taxpayers dollars wait until the end of the line. Anyone with acute need is dealt with just as quickly here as they would be in the U.S.
I am from the usa and looking to move to canada. I have a genetic heart condition and can't get insurance. I was just cut off medicare their excuse was because I work. I work because I am taking care of myself and taking all my heart meds so I don't get angina. Now that my insurance is going to end my husband and I have talked about moving. How realistic is it that I would be able to get medical care there just coming from usa. How long would I have to live there? Would I even qualify for anything? My husband is already looking for work there. He has a good trade not worried he wouldn't be able to find work. The sad thing is we had to divorce just to get the health care that I am now losing. does anybody have any advice for me?
I am from the usa and looking to move to canada. I have a genetic heart condition and can't get insurance. I was just cut off medicare their excuse was because I work. I work because I am taking care of myself and taking all my heart meds so I don't get angina. Now that my insurance is going to end my husband and I have talked about moving. How realistic is it that I would be able to get medical care there just coming from usa. How long would I have to live there? Would I even qualify for anything? My husband is already looking for work there. He has a good trade not worried he wouldn't be able to find work. The sad thing is we had to divorce just to get the health care that I am now losing. does anybody have any advice for me?
Health care is much better in the U.S. You might be insured, but you won't get treated as well as you would be as a self-pay patient in the United States.
Socialized medicine is a self-limiting trap. I'm speaking as a dual citizen who has experienced the US and the Canadian systems.
1. It's not free. You are paying for it through your taxes.
2. The system grows quickly because the consumer is not the payer. To compensate, services must be cut. So, I, for example, must pay high taxes for the socialized service, and an additional $1600 per year for private benefits and prescription coverage. Every year, more services are cut.
3. Dentistry is not socialized--so it's modern and efficient.
4. The government controls healthcare--so various procedures and drugs available in The US are simply not available here. Too expensive (!)
5. Toronto--the fourth largest city in North America has few MRI machines. The benchmark is one machine per 350.000 people. You might be waiting three months for an MRI and then have at at 3AM.
6. Family doctors' salaries are capped. So they service their maximum number and go on vacation for the rest of the year.
7. A friend of mine has to wait eight weeks for an ENT specialist appointment.
8. Another friend of mine had his back broken in a construction accident seven years ago. He's on a bunch of Oxycontins every day just to survive. It's taken this long because the wait between specialists appointment and surgical appointments can go on for several months.
Guys, whatever Obama has in store for the US medical system, run the other way.
...are you a right wing Republican whose never experienced living in a country with universal health care? You're point about long waiting lines and lack of quality is the same most Republicans in America state. I've lived in Australia and there is a certain thing called..."Private Health Care". You know how in America we have public schools and private schools...well it works the same way. If you need a major operation urgently, you can always go to a private doctor and pay for it. I can't speak first hand about Canada's system, but I can for Australia's system and it beats the hell out of our system (America's). The fact you mentioned Obama tells me your post is just coming out of your own perception and not actual experience.
As other's have mentioned, the main question is whether or not you will qualify to move to Canada.
btw...you pay for it in taxes? Income tax is basically the same as in America. The main difference is there is a sales tax of 10% that is nationwide. Our family of 3 pays $5000 every 3 months = $20,000 per year just for insurance...not including our deductable.
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