Is Toronto a difficult place to make friends (restaurants, club)
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It's the people who populate the place. Toronto is an odd duck. Of the cities where I've pitched my tent over the years, Toronto is by a long shot the least friendly of them all. The local culture is much more anti-social than other places where I've lived and good humour does not seem to come easily to its residents. Perhaps continued high levels of immigration will change this for the better. Who knows?
In all honesty, I'm not sure how one can capture the dynamism of human behaviour, lump it into a generalized basket and somehow associate it with a city the size of Toronto. There may be a bit too it where the Anglo roots still come into play - sort of a Victorian standoffishness if you will so that will definitely continue to be remedied as more diverse groups come in. I just don't think its fair to compare the friendliness of a city (i'm speaking urbanized area population) of 6 million+ people with one the size of say 3 million or less. Toronto is no longer a small city so isn't comparable to one. In Canada you just can't compare it to any city in terms of size. There's Montreal but even it is only 65percent the population of Toronto and plus is different culturally.
As for where you've pitched your tent... where did you pitch your tent lol - it'd have to be a city of comparable size otherwise its not a fair comparison. Plus if it was say a latin or European city they are just more laid back cultures. How friendly are people in large American cities like say S.F, Philadelphia, Chicago etc - are they that much friendlier than Torontonians.... I dunno, they are really the only comparable cities in terms of culture/geographic location/size and i'm not too certain that they'd be that much friendlier. For me, after a long day of work, i'm not exactly walking home all smiley and and friendly either to be honest. Its not that i'm not friendly, I just wanna get home cook some dinner, have a drink and relax!
In all honesty, I'm not sure how one can capture the dynamism of human behaviour, lump it into a generalized basket and somehow associate it with a city the size of Toronto. There may be a bit too it where the Anglo roots still come into play - sort of a Victorian standoffishness if you will so that will definitely continue to be remedied as more diverse groups come in. I just don't think its fair to compare the friendliness of a city (i'm speaking urbanized area population) of 6 million+ people with one the size of say 3 million or less. Toronto is no longer a small city so isn't comparable to one. In Canada you just can't compare it to any city in terms of size. There's Montreal but even it is only 65percent the population of Toronto and plus is different culturally.
As for where you've pitched your tent... where did you pitch your tent lol - it'd have to be a city of comparable size otherwise its not a fair comparison. Plus if it was say a latin or European city they are just more laid back cultures. How friendly are people in large American cities like say S.F, Philadelphia, Chicago etc - are they that much friendlier than Torontonians.... I dunno, they are really the only comparable cities in terms of culture/geographic location/size and i'm not too certain that they'd be that much friendlier. For me, after a long day of work, i'm not exactly walking home all smiley and and friendly either to be honest. Its not that i'm not friendly, I just wanna get home cook some dinner, have a drink and relax!
I've lived in major cities in five different Canadian provinces. The residents of each of those cities have been friendlier.
I've lived in Chicago. Chicagoans are friendlier. I've lived in Tokyo. Tokyoites are friendlier. I've lived in Dublin. Dubliners are friendlier.
I've spent a lot of time in London, but I've never lived there. Londoners are friendlier.
I don't know how many more examples you want, but having spent a lot of time in a lot of different places, Torontonians are at the bottom of the pile when it comes to friendliness in my humble opinion. The only truly friendly people whom I've come to know in Toronto are from places where people are significantly more friendly and relaxed. It may sting, but that's my impression. Many other people who I know, both well-travelled and not so well-travelled alike, would agree.
You seem like a decent soul, fusion2. You're probably one of the good folks in your city.
I've lived in major cities in five different Canadian provinces. The residents of each of those cities have been friendlier.
It may sting, but that's my impression. Many other people who I know, both well-travelled and not so well-travelled alike, would agree.
You seem like a decent soul, fusion2. You're probably one of the good folks in your city.
Well I appreciate your compliment! I'm pretty friendly but yeah - after a long day of work especially if it was a stressful one I may not be in a very sociable mood . Anyway, If your experiences in the other cities you've lived in is that they are friendlier, that is your experience and I wouldn't challenge how you feel personally. I wouldn't say it stings either - your experience is your experience and to be honest, there is more to a city being great than the perception of friendliness. There are friendly folk in Toronto so I think it is very difficult to categorize a place as friendlier than the other in blanket terms. Everyone's experience is going to be different to the other.. Something like this is very hard to quantify to be honest. Having said that, like anything in life it is what you make it and if you come into Toronto with preconceived notions it will become a self fulfilling prophesy imho either in positive or negative terms.
To me it's tough to meet people here. All my friends are from high school and a lot have moved or have busy lifestyles so it's hard to meet up with them very often. So I mostly do things by myself now. I wish I could move to the American southeast asap cus I know there's better weather, it's easier to meet people, girls are easy to talk to, the job market isn't as competitive, everything is way cheaper, etc. People in Toronto are probably a lot less mean than Americans but they're boring as hell unless you know them well. I've never had a bad experience with an American being mean or anything like that but I'm not naive enough to know that they are. the good side of americans is that they're easy to talk to, not afraid to say whatevers on their mind but the bad side is they're a lot crazier but that's what comes with it.
Cold weather, busy busy people, standoffish and very untrusting to others; is what I normally see in Toronto. What I have noticed is you must be in a clique and group of friends in order to meet on an other, normally you wouldn't be welcomed into any clique of people who already know each other. People are boring here as well in my opinion, they lack proper ways of opening up to each other and it seems that people here just do not know how to open up and meet new people and digest into another person in a friendly norm, I noticed the devil liked gazes and stares people give you when you try to talk to them here, its as if they are telling you to bounce or what do you want?, people here prefer to stick to there own cliques and not open up to anymore people. I find people here extremely hard to start a conversation with, they give you that pity scorn look that just makes you change your mind about that. I find Toronto to be very reserved for people who are not interested at all in meeting new people and maybe that could be the fact that they don't trust nobody or they thing twice about who you are and what you might be to them as they envision you. The lack of things people do on a Friday night or a Saturday night, all they want to do is sit home and watch TV or play video games all day, or they lie and make excuses about the fact they are not able to hang out or mingle. It's not only hard but crucial as well, people here strive for money and will use you as an object too and not see you as a meaningful character for a friend. Start a conversation here and you will end up having a brief conversation that will likely not go any further than your expectations, people here are abnormally busy 24/7 like a factory. I also noticed that if you are in a clique of lets say 5-10 friends you will probably not be a useful friend and be hanging out with random people that you think they like you but they really don't. Joining a clique of friends is also tough because people will think of you twice instead of just be outgoing and friendly. This is why I think Toronto is a terrible place for making new friends and feeling accepted to people, its a pretty miserable place to live.
Is this a description of all people in Toronto.... or is it a description of yourself?
I've lived in major cities in five different Canadian provinces. The residents of each of those cities have been friendlier.
I've lived in Chicago. Chicagoans are friendlier. I've lived in Tokyo. Tokyoites are friendlier. I've lived in Dublin. Dubliners are friendlier.
I've spent a lot of time in London, but I've never lived there. Londoners are friendlier.
I don't know how many more examples you want, but having spent a lot of time in a lot of different places, Torontonians are at the bottom of the pile when it comes to friendliness in my humble opinion. The only truly friendly people whom I've come to know in Toronto are from places where people are significantly more friendly and relaxed. It may sting, but that's my impression. Many other people who I know, both well-travelled and not so well-travelled alike, would agree.
You seem like a decent soul, fusion2. You're probably one of the good folks in your city.
I'll agree that Toronto isn't an overtly friendly place (at times), but to say that it's less friendly than Tokyo or London is mental. You're making it out to be the worst place in the world, which it by no means is.
Look, I lived in New England before moving to the GTA. Boston isn't any friendlier than Toronto, trust me, and if Boston somehow became Toronto in terms of population and diversity, it would be far worse in terms of sh*tty and obnoxious attitudes.
Speaking of which, since you're so well-travelled, I assume you know that American cities like Miami, Atlanta, Boston, and Philly are plagued by bad attitudes and rude people. I didn't notice half as much of that during my time living in the GTA. I don't disagree that Toronto is unfriendly, but it is remarkable that it isn't downright cruel in the way a city like Philly is.
I live in Boston now and I would rank it about the same as Toronto in terms of friendliness, both slightly below average. After I moved from NYC to Boston, I found the city reminded me of Toronto socially. Composition of people were different but they were similar in the sense that everyone had established social circles. Unlike NYC, people were not always on the lookout to meet new people, network and go out as much. You really have to experience the contrast to understand it. I don't think people are mean-hearted or anything like that but I just found both cities are:
(1) Dominated by people who are from the area so they don't have a "need" for new friends between busy work, personal lives and their significant other. Even I admit that most my friends in TO are from university with a couple from high school. It seems very common with most people I know.
(2) They are a bit quieter and reserved cities overall. I read a study once where people were more introverted/quiet in the north and became more extraverted/open the more south you went on different continents. Seems to hold try in North America to some extent just like Europe (compare Scandanavians to the Mediterrean for e.g.). It's not bad or good btw but just a different culture so you have to adjust.
I would recommend anyone who is new to Toronto (or even Boston) to not expect people to bend over backwards to be your friend and put the effort to do social activities where you can meet people, especially with other transient people. People from certain cultural groups easily migrate to similar people as well. I can see how it will take a little time but I don't believe someone will not be able to make any friends if they try.
Last edited by johnathanc; 04-14-2014 at 11:21 AM..
I would recommend anyone who is new to Toronto (or even Boston) to not expect people to bend over backwards to be your friend and put the effort to do social activities where you can meet people, especially with other transient people. People from certain cultural groups easily migrate to similar people as well. I can see how it will take a little time but I don't believe someone will not be able to make any friends if they try.
In red I think you really nailed it... This isn't difficult to do at all either. I have to question the concerted effort of some individuals in here complaining about how terrible a place is when I doubt much effort is being made to adapt and enjoy their new home. Certainly if as much energy was put into enriching their own life instead of complaining about a place than i'm pretty certain they would be much better off in Toronto or Boston or <insertplacehere>. I'm not exactly the most sociable person - i'm moody and my general disposition isn't extraordinarily smiley and gregarious (Well I am a Waspy Torontonian after all ). At the same time even I have found like individuals to befriend and hang out with. I'm comfortable with my own skin and I tend to gravitate to like-minded geeks and we have our own fun.
I think if an individual is unhappy in a place for a prolonged period of time however, and that it just isn't working it is probably time to just pack up and move on. Isn't that what you would do in a job you're not happy with, in a relationship that is broken etc etc....
Cold weather, busy busy people, standoffish and very untrusting to others; is what I normally see in Toronto. What I have noticed is you must be in a clique and group of friends in order to meet on an other, normally you wouldn't be welcomed into any clique of people who already know each other. People are boring here as well in my opinion, they lack proper ways of opening up to each other and it seems that people here just do not know how to open up and meet new people and digest into another person in a friendly norm, I noticed the devil liked gazes and stares people give you when you try to talk to them here, its as if they are telling you to bounce or what do you want?, people here prefer to stick to there own cliques and not open up to anymore people. I find people here extremely hard to start a conversation with, they give you that pity scorn look that just makes you change your mind about that. I find Toronto to be very reserved for people who are not interested at all in meeting new people and maybe that could be the fact that they don't trust nobody or they thing twice about who you are and what you might be to them as they envision you. The lack of things people do on a Friday night or a Saturday night, all they want to do is sit home and watch TV or play video games all day, or they lie and make excuses about the fact they are not able to hang out or mingle. It's not only hard but crucial as well, people here strive for money and will use you as an object too and not see you as a meaningful character for a friend. Start a conversation here and you will end up having a brief conversation that will likely not go any further than your expectations, people here are abnormally busy 24/7 like a factory. I also noticed that if you are in a clique of lets say 5-10 friends you will probably not be a useful friend and be hanging out with random people that you think they like you but they really don't. Joining a clique of friends is also tough because people will think of you twice instead of just be outgoing and friendly. This is why I think Toronto is a terrible place for making new friends and feeling accepted to people, its a pretty miserable place to live.
You need a psychiatrist. Your problems have nothing to do with Toronto.
Do people honestly expect to meet people that eventually become their friends by just randomly walking down the street? Does this actually happen anywhere in real life?
As Jonathan mentioned above I find Toronto similar to other Northern US cities and to be honest similar to basically anywhere I have lived on this earth. There are good and bad people everywhere and not all the good people are going to have something in common with each other.
I have never moved to Toronto as an adult as an outsider, as my initial move was when my family immigrated to Toronto while I was in grade school. Then when I returned after leaving for quite a few years it was for grad school and I already had quite a few friends in the area. But every other city I have lived in, I have made friends by putting myself out there and getting involved in the community.
For example in Boston I play in a soccer league and have met people from there; I am a member of a running club and met friends there; joined a "Supper club" where people meet up once a month and try out new restaurants and made friends there; we have a daughter in pre school, so I have made friends with other parents whose children attend the same school; finally the good old fashioned way from work. In London it is the exact same, joined a running club, play pick up soccer and ended up with some great friends.
This is just the way it happens. People are not going to go out of their way to meet every single person they run into on a random basis, but if you get involved in your community and in activities that interest you then you instantly have something in common with others who are doing the same. I can't understand how this cant be accomplished in a city as large and varied as Toronto.
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. Anyway, If your experiences in the other cities you've lived in is that they are friendlier, that is your experience and I wouldn't challenge how you feel personally. I wouldn't say it stings either - your experience is your experience 
and to be honest, there is more to a city being great than the perception of friendliness. There are friendly folk in Toronto so I think it is very difficult to categorize a place as friendlier than the other in blanket terms. Everyone's experience is going to be different to the other.. Something like this is very hard to quantify to be honest. Having said that, like anything in life it is what you make it and if you come into Toronto with preconceived notions it will become a self fulfilling prophesy imho either in positive or negative terms.
