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Well you asked so lets do some real world math, and I'd imagine I'm not the only one with similar situation. First I have a kick azz v8 pick-up that I'm keeping 15-18mpg 4 door monster with bed cover and hitch on back to role out when a hurricane a comes a knocking with a full tank and 4 extra 5 gallon cans in the back, let the wife pick up groceries and home depot on weekend and boat rest of time, 50 miles a week.
OK, back to the commuter work car. 40 miles a day commute, 5 to 7 days a week, definetly 25,000$ max, must last 10 years with little problems(dependable). Leave the house drive 30mph for a mile or so to first red light, then drive 40/50 mph for 3 miles to interstate then 70 mph on interstate for 7 miles to exit, then cut across city for 10 miles many red lights, in the morning when lights are in sync I would probably be running the Prius on mostly gas. You return the trip in the evening with much more traffic I'd definitely use up the battery's getting home, no problem the car gets 50+ miles a gallon on gas, when I get home I plug it back in and charge the battery's. On battery power the car goes 100 miles on 3$'s of electricity. You average the weekly commute out and figure you run the whole week on a few gallons of gas and 3 or 4 dollars of electricity and I'm a little impressed. On gas power the Prius actualy gets better mileage in heavy stop and go traffic than it does on the highway. It's a set up more people will be considering if gas goes north of 5$'s a gallon.
The gains are certainly beneficial versus an existing Prius, but if we plugged a Volt into your scenario, you wouldn't use a drop of gas. That's the difference.
Besides, I did a little checking (should have done it yesterday) and the plug-in Prius does NOT get 30 miles on an electical charge....it gets ~14. I thought the 30 number was high, but failed to check it. So, 14 miles at up to 60mph (under ideal conditions) on electic only at an expected upcharge of $3,500-$5,000 per vehicle over a standard Prius. Even if it got 30, it is not the same as what can be done on a Volt, which represents the next generation of technology.
Sorry, but the plug-in Prius has FAIL written all over it. It will cost significantly more than a regular Prius. It won't reach anything remotely approaching a payback on that upcharge until well over 200k miles. Most of all, it can't even accomodate normal commutes in EV only mode, which is the whole point of a plug-in. This whole thing is just Toyota's way of saying, we have a plug-in too.
The gains are certainly beneficial versus an existing Prius, but if we plugged a Volt into your scenario, you wouldn't use a drop of gas. That's the difference.
Besides, I did a little checking (should have done it yesterday) and the plug-in Prius does NOT get 30 miles on an electical charge....it gets ~14. I thought the 30 number was high, but failed to check it. So, 14 miles at up to 60mph (under ideal conditions) on electic only at an expected upcharge of $3,500-$5,000 per vehicle over a standard Prius. Even if it got 30, it is not the same as what can be done on a Volt, which represents the next generation of technology.
Sorry, but the plug-in Prius has FAIL written all over it. It will cost significantly more than a regular Prius. It won't reach anything remotely approaching a payback on that upcharge until well over 200k miles. Most of all, it can't even accomodate normal commutes in EV only mode, which is the whole point of a plug-in. This whole thing is just Toyota's way of saying, we have a plug-in too.
Right, the Prius PHEV has fail all over it. It won't do any worse than the Volt.
I notice non hybrid owners love telling people what to think and what to calculate in regards to hybrids.
I think if I had a lengthy commute daily, a hybrid would make good sense. But the payback (even with high gas prices) on the extra initial cost is something like 50,000 miles. I don't think it would appeal to me under my present circumstances (only 4 mi from work).
Right, the Prius PHEV has fail all over it. It won't do any worse than the Volt.
I notice non hybrid owners love telling people what to think and what to calculate in regards to hybrids.
In the Volt's defense, it is only available in 7 states currently. However, the price does need to come down absent the tax incentive to get more people into them. Slow sales is not a condemnation of the technology. Heck, even the folks on Prius chat and the green blogs are smitten with what the Volt can do and see the Prius PHEV as a compromised effort so Toyota can say, "hey we have a plug-in too".
My fail comment, was mainly directed at the fact that the Prius PHEV, is significantly compromised compared to the capabilities of a Volt and will still carry a hefty price over a standard Prius. Most sources say about $27,500 is the starting point for the Prius PHEV and will go up from there with options.
As far as me not being a hybrid owner and telling others what to calculate, I may not own one, but I assure you I probably have more collective experience with hybrids than just about anyone else on the forum. Previous to my current job, I was the Operations Director of the largest non-profit car sharing company in North America. I've managed fleets that contain hundreds of hybrids being used as daily rental vehicles. Trust me, I know their ins and outs and economics very well.
I still don't see Toyota producing a Prius Plug In that is going to fail. People love the Prius and seem to be well educated on it and a plug in is what many are waiting for. I don't think volume will be high for it but there is a market for it.
Seems GM is only churning out about 300 or so Volt's a month so not sure where they expected to sell 50,000 or so. It was all B.S from the start and the GOVERNMENT got all the American mags to add fluff for it.
There is no way you estimate 50k sales and produce 300 a month and say "oh production is slow".
I still don't see Toyota producing a Prius Plug In that is going to fail. People love the Prius and seem to be well educated on it and a plug in is what many are waiting for. I don't think volume will be high for it but there is a market for it.
Seems GM is only churning out about 300 or so Volt's a month so not sure where they expected to sell 50,000 or so. It was all B.S from the start and the GOVERNMENT got all the American mags to add fluff for it.
There is no way you estimate 50k sales and produce 300 a month and say "oh production is slow".
I don't think the Prius plug-in will necessarily fail from a sales perspective. Afterall, there are people paying $15k to convert their regular Prius into a plug-in that doesn't get much better range than what Toyota is offering in 2012 from the factory. It will appeal to the Prius faithful and that alone will guarantee enough sales for Toyota.
GM estimated moving 50k units a year after they completed rollout to all 50 states. At current rates they are selling about 24k units a year if they had done a 50-state rollout. In the Volt's case, price is the biggest hurdle to overcome. They won't be making 50k units this year, but I think it's possible for 2012.
I really don't get all the hate for everything GM. I get that you and many others will never even consider their products again after the bailout, but give some credit where credit is do. The Volt is a major leap in technology and it's nice to see an American company running out front in that area, while Toyota is trying to play catch-up.
I've given credit to the Volt, its a great first effort and surely the 2nd gen will be better. I hope they make some great products considering our taxes are going to fund these projects.
Its just funny to me people humping a 42k 4 seater that needs 10k in tax credits and bash and dislike the proven Prius for being a "Prius" or "toyota". It does go both ways
I've given credit to the Volt, its a great first effort and surely the 2nd gen will be better. I hope they make some great products considering our taxes are going to fund these projects.
Its just funny to me people humping a 42k 4 seater that needs 10k in tax credits and bash and dislike the proven Prius for being a "Prius" or "toyota". It does go both ways
I'm not bashing Toyota or the Prius. Merely pointing out that there is a major difference between what can be done with the Volt versus the Prius. They are different technologies. One of the cars can be driven as an electric vehicle under normal driving conditions for enough distance to more than cover the average commute. The other even in its plug-in form is still essentially slaved to its gas engine under all but very limited circumstances, or not at all if you go with the standard model.
By pointing out that there might possibly be something better on the market then a Toyota product you are bashing them. Fanboys do not accept reasoning and logical, objective thinking.
The Volt is selling at 300 units per month because that's all they can make at this point. They believe they can ramp up production next year as they learn from this slow and deliberate product roll out. They do not want any slip ups. No recalls, no accidents, so they are not trying to puke Volts out of the factory at breakneck speed. Once they know their practices are sound, they will turn up the volume.
When Toyota does something smart like this, i.e. a limited roll out of radically new technology it is called smart and calculated. When GM does it, it is regarded as slow and bumbling. Meanwhile the Nissan Leaf, I believe, is still not living up to the promises of its manufacturer considering all the pre-orders they had, and this was BEFORE the tsunami.
Personally know 2 people in complete different areas of the country who made the huge mistake of buying one. Both hate it and can't get out from under it. Only place they are "popular" if you will...Ca. She asked MY opinion, I gave it.
lol! I love my Prius (3 years old) without a single trip to the shop other than oil changes. It's quite, spacious, has all the bells and whistles I need, averages 47 mpg. Why would you think they'e a "mistake"? The reason I bought one was because we had twins 3 years ago and the baby seats barely fit in the back seat. The Prius has lots of leg room and the seats fit with room to spare. Plus with the hatchback, it easily holds their double stroller. I first looked at minivans, but didn't like the poor gas mileage and big size. The Prius was cheaper, got more than twice the MPG, and serves it's purpose very well. Of course I don't live in TX or think my car is a direct reflection of my penis size
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It won't do any worse than the Volt. 
What do you think of the 2011 Toyota Prius
