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Old 09-03-2013, 09:39 PM
 
Location: USA
939 posts, read 649,089 times
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My trunk woofer is actually blown, not distorted because of grill debris bouncing all over it. I just ordered two of them (so they will be matched to each other and to the rest of the system) from Toyota at $160 ea., discounted from $191 ea. I am having second thoughts about spending even that much.

I want a lot of bass, yet I don't want to go the preamp/ two speakers in one cabinet route, as the first car stereo shop I asked suggested. The original setup was pretty darn good (enough!). They will install both of my speakers for $75. I saw the YouTube video and it's a lot of work.

There are four wires to each speaker. Any chance I can find a brick and mortar store selling the exact ohms and wattage? I couldn't spot the specs. in the owner's manual. I tried Googling it but didn't have any luck. Does anyone know them?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:53 PM
 
15,211 posts, read 21,314,555 times
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You will NEVER have good bass with factory speakers, unless vehicle has factory subwoofer and chances of that to sound good are quite miniscule either.

Here's $240 grand total fix for your bass question: Basslink200, was $120 new online plus $125 wiring install, RCA converter included, which I should have, and could have, done myself. But it's hybrid Camry, I did not want to mess something up.



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Old 09-03-2013, 10:38 PM
 
8,402 posts, read 22,236,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noregon98 View Post
My trunk woofer is actually blown, not distorted because of grill debris bouncing all over it. I just ordered two of them (so they will be matched to each other and to the rest of the system) from Toyota at $160 ea., discounted from $191 ea. I am having second thoughts about spending even that much.

I want a lot of bass, yet I don't want to go the preamp/ two speakers in one cabinet route, as the first car stereo shop I asked suggested. The original setup was pretty darn good (enough!). They will install both of my speakers for $75. I saw the YouTube video and it's a lot of work.

There are four wires to each speaker. Any chance I can find a brick and mortar store selling the exact ohms and wattage? I couldn't spot the specs. in the owner's manual. I tried Googling it but didn't have any luck. Does anyone know them?

Thanks in advance.
No, you won't find a direct replacement for your Toyota woofers at a B&M store. But you can certainly find replacements online for much less than Toyota wants to charge. You can search for them using the numebrs on the woofers, or "2004 Toyota (insert model here) woofer", looking in sites like the12volt.com.

BTW-they "blew" because you were trying to make them produce bass beyond their capabilities. You may consider a different setup if you want that level of bass, reliably. Chances are you were distorting them for some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
You will NEVER have good bass with factory speakers, unless vehicle has factory subwoofer and chances of that to sound good are quite miniscule either.

Here's $240 grand total fix for your bass question: Basslink200, was $120 new online plus $125 wiring install, RCA converter included, which I should have, and could have, done myself. But it's hybrid Camry, I did not want to mess something up.


That is a professional install? Ugh.

It is a suitable improvement over stock, along with powered Bazookas and the like.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:16 AM
 
Location: USA
939 posts, read 649,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxnc View Post

BTW-they "blew" because you were trying to make them produce bass beyond their capabilities. You may consider a different setup if you want that level of bass, reliably. Chances are you were distorting them for some time.
Thanks...you're right on both counts.
My iPod is the only mode of music I use, synced via iTune's, whose sound check option could use a little checking itself. I never hear any difference since lots 'o songs come screamin' in, and one speaker finally had enough.

If I have to go the preamp route, I just want a setup that gives me more bass guitar (ala sixties and seventies R&R), and not just more post 1990s' bass drum sound.
Some of those rigs sound great with rap or easy listening synthesized bass but not an electric or acoustic one. My second wish is to not have to spend hours trying to figure out how to use the system and hours trying to find the right mix, if possible.

I tried that link you supplied but didn't have any luck with it returning any info., so I'll go back to the car stereo shop(s) and see what they can do.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:57 PM
 
8,402 posts, read 22,236,890 times
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If you have something installed, they should set the system up to your preference. I would ask them to explain how to further adjust it once it breaks in and the sound changes a bit. Generally there will only be two adjustments to be made if you get a setup like in the post above. When I was doing installs I would have told you to swing back by and I would tweek the system a bit. For what you're trying to do there should be little to no need on your part to learn how to use it. Set it and forget it.

Try Camry forums. Most model specific forums have electronics or audio sub forums.

BTW-if you pay for a pro install, and it looks like the one in the post above, ask for the manager. That is a poor example of a proper install.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:33 PM
 
Location: USA
939 posts, read 649,089 times
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Thanks again.

Today I stopped by a car stereo shop briefly and since I wanted a lot of bottom he suggested a 12" woofer, preamp, and two woofers to replace the ones in the car above the trunk. I would then take all the bass off all the other speakers in the car, leaving the trunk-sub to handle all the lows. Not the way I wanted to go, but I'd think it over.

He said he could add a switch to the dash so I could lower or raise the output of the woofer inside the trunk w/o having to go through a whole bunch of menu options to lower or raise the bass for every other song.

I would really like to hear just about four measures each of a couple of songs of MY musical tastes through a system I was considering purchasing, although I wouldn't count on too many shops agreeing to do this no matter how brief the clip. This shop had nothing of what he wanted do sell me hooked up OR together anyway.

I did not think of visiting Camry forums, but i will. I also found some make/model sites like you mentioned. I'll be researching them in between my other projects
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:09 AM
 
8,402 posts, read 22,236,890 times
Reputation: 6800
Quote:
Originally Posted by noregon98 View Post
Thanks again.

Today I stopped by a car stereo shop briefly and since I wanted a lot of bottom he suggested a 12" woofer, preamp, and two woofers to replace the ones in the car above the trunk. I would then take all the bass off all the other speakers in the car, leaving the trunk-sub to handle all the lows. Not the way I wanted to go, but I'd think it over.

He said he could add a switch to the dash so I could lower or raise the output of the woofer inside the trunk w/o having to go through a whole bunch of menu options to lower or raise the bass for every other song.

I would really like to hear just about four measures each of a couple of songs of MY musical tastes through a system I was considering purchasing, although I wouldn't count on too many shops agreeing to do this no matter how brief the clip. This shop had nothing of what he wanted do sell me hooked up OR together anyway.

I did not think of visiting Camry forums, but i will. I also found some make/model sites like you mentioned. I'll be researching them in between my other projects
You're welcome.

Actually he proposed an amp, not a preamp. If the woofers in your rear deck are actually "subwoofers", and not part of the rear speaker system, there is no need to replace them if you're going to add a sub and amp. I'm also not sure if the bass needs to be permanently cut off from the other speakers in the car. Normally that's what would happen, but it is either already done, or the other speakers are working fine without it being done. Adding a 12" sub will probably cause you to turn down the bass, so the other speakers wouldn't be working nearly as hard as they are now.

You should be able to hear a demo, but keep in mind that it won't be set up like your car would be, and the demo room is very different from your car. That is true for any shop. If a shop can't or won't do a demo with your music, I'd find another shop.

Something to consider-if you find yourself adjusting the bass for each song played, you're not hearing the music as it was intended. That's a purist point of view, certainly. Do you adjust the bass for each song when you're listening at home, or on a portable device?
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:32 PM
 
Location: USA
939 posts, read 649,089 times
Reputation: 1398
Rarely do I adjust the bass back and fourth at home, way more often it’s in the car using the iPod.

The blown trunk speaker I’d be replacing is (are) two 6x9 two-ways, with four wires each. I think he was suggesting replacing them with two 3-way 6x9s’ so I would have top and some mid in the front, mid in the back and a new amp & new sub in the trunk. I’m not a huge midrange person, though it would be nice to have speakers that are better capable of handling it, though the mid setting always stays the same.

I changed out the factory head in my car with a $150 Pioneer (which has a remote) wherein I have the loudness off, full bass whenever possible, mid at 0 or -2, full treble. The treble always stays all the way open. My iPod is pretty much my only playback source in the car.

On my home system, playback is usually iTunes via my Mac., with bass a little more subdued and constant, the mid is always flat, full treble always.
I think if I were playing CDs' in the car or home, instead of relying on Apple's free "Sound Check" feature (via iTunes and the iPod), I wouldn't be messing with the bass as much, I'd probably be messing with CDs instead! If it's true that video killed the radio, the iTunes & iPod's shuffle feature surely killed playing complete albums for me...so it's a tradeoff.
When I get around to getting a super high-end non-theatre type home system, I'd be more inclined to have the equalization permanently flat. Same super type high-end system for my car...I'd probably still crank the bass!

Seriously, I would never leave the car if I could have a pair of actual 3-way JBL Studio Monitors (the classic ones for the home) w/15 inch woofers as the only rear speakers hooked up. They’d be in the trunk, facing me. I would then put the back seats down when not parked…what’s the chances of that happening and for how much?

If not, now you know my equalization tastes, what do you suggest?
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:01 PM
 
15,211 posts, read 21,314,555 times
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As you clearly disregarded frugal suggestion, here's what you need:
1. 12 inch bandpass subwoofer enclosure in the trunk, NOT facing you, as trunk doubles as additional enclosure and bass is NOT directional, dual voice coil, about 600W continuous handling, with about 1500 W peak/650/800 W continuous handling, monoblock dedicated subwoofer amp. Tuned to 30 Hz or so. Bandpass tuned to 12.8 Hz.
2. 4 channels 100-150W per channel amp for front and rear door speakers.
3. Door speakers upgrade to 6.5'' coaxial drivers, with good bass handling and 2nd voice coil suitable for high reproduction. Continuous handling about 100W
4. Not sure if you have tweeters. If you do, move them to pillar A triangles, right across the mirror attachment. Treble, unlike bass, IS directional and having them "in your face" helps a lot.
Personally, I'd have completely disregarded rear shelf speakers, as sub in the trunk will overpower them anyway. Simply disconnect them.
In that manner, you have low rambling bass behind you, mid range in all four doors, and treble in your face.
Your bill will be around $1500 grand total, if not more. Good drivers are expensive, amps - not so much. Monoblock amp will run you $100, 4 channel around same, door drivers about 70-80 each, good sub for the trunk will be around 300-400, may be more. Plus install.
Here's several examples of DIY installs, for a diff car, but gives you idea:

Old Gray Haired Newby Audio Upgrade - Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums

Polk DB6501 // DB651 // RAAMmat BXT II // Ensolite Installation - Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums
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Old 09-07-2013, 01:38 PM
 
8,402 posts, read 22,236,890 times
Reputation: 6800
Quote:
Originally Posted by noregon98 View Post
Rarely do I adjust the bass back and fourth at home, way more often it’s in the car using the iPod.

The blown trunk speaker I’d be replacing is (are) two 6x9 two-ways, with four wires each. I think he was suggesting replacing them with two 3-way 6x9s’ so I would have top and some mid in the front, mid in the back and a new amp & new sub in the trunk. I’m not a huge midrange person, though it would be nice to have speakers that are better capable of handling it, though the mid setting always stays the same.

I changed out the factory head in my car with a $150 Pioneer (which has a remote) wherein I have the loudness off, full bass whenever possible, mid at 0 or -2, full treble. The treble always stays all the way open. My iPod is pretty much my only playback source in the car.

On my home system, playback is usually iTunes via my Mac., with bass a little more subdued and constant, the mid is always flat, full treble always.
I think if I were playing CDs' in the car or home, instead of relying on Apple's free "Sound Check" feature (via iTunes and the iPod), I wouldn't be messing with the bass as much, I'd probably be messing with CDs instead! If it's true that video killed the radio, the iTunes & iPod's shuffle feature surely killed playing complete albums for me...so it's a tradeoff.
When I get around to getting a super high-end non-theatre type home system, I'd be more inclined to have the equalization permanently flat. Same super type high-end system for my car...I'd probably still crank the bass!

Seriously, I would never leave the car if I could have a pair of actual 3-way JBL Studio Monitors (the classic ones for the home) w/15 inch woofers as the only rear speakers hooked up. They’d be in the trunk, facing me. I would then put the back seats down when not parked…what’s the chances of that happening and for how much?

If not, now you know my equalization tastes, what do you suggest?
More suggestions to come, but consider this-when you go to a live musical performance, from which direction does the music come from? In front of you, or behind you? Are there speakers behind you when you are facing the stage?

When you crank the bass, meaning turning up the bass control, you're only changing a very narrow band of frequencies, typically around 100Hz. In doing so you're distorting all the frequencies around it, which is where muddiness cmes into play. Adding a true subwoofer system means you leave the bass flat, and actually turn the bass up by raising the subwoofer's output level. Often, turning down the bass control sounds better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
As you clearly disregarded frugal suggestion, here's what you need:
1. 12 inch bandpass subwoofer enclosure in the trunk, NOT facing you, as trunk doubles as additional enclosure and bass is NOT directional, dual voice coil, about 600W continuous handling, with about 1500 W peak/650/800 W continuous handling, monoblock dedicated subwoofer amp. Tuned to 30 Hz or so. Bandpass tuned to 12.8 Hz.
2. 4 channels 100-150W per channel amp for front and rear door speakers.
3. Door speakers upgrade to 6.5'' coaxial drivers, with good bass handling and 2nd voice coil suitable for high reproduction. Continuous handling about 100W
4. Not sure if you have tweeters. If you do, move them to pillar A triangles, right across the mirror attachment. Treble, unlike bass, IS directional and having them "in your face" helps a lot.
Personally, I'd have completely disregarded rear shelf speakers, as sub in the trunk will overpower them anyway. Simply disconnect them.
In that manner, you have low rambling bass behind you, mid range in all four doors, and treble in your face.
Your bill will be around $1500 grand total, if not more. Good drivers are expensive, amps - not so much. Monoblock amp will run you $100, 4 channel around same, door drivers about 70-80 each, good sub for the trunk will be around 300-400, may be more. Plus install.
Here's several examples of DIY installs, for a diff car, but gives you idea:

Old Gray Haired Newby Audio Upgrade - Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums

Polk DB6501 // DB651 // RAAMmat BXT II // Ensolite Installation - Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums
Flea market garbage amps are $100 each. Real world useful power of the amps you suggest would probably be a 10th of what you quoted. Junk. I've yanked far too much of that trash out of cars to ever consider using one of them. $70 is not expensive for a good driver, by a long shot.

Bass is directional to the extent that turning a sub box in different directions WILL produce different resuts in the vehicle's interior. For what reasons did you choose a bandpass, and what point is there in (trying) to tune it to 12.8Hz, since there is no useful audio down there? How do you tune an amp to 30Hz, and again, what is the point in that?

You have some very odd views of mobile audio.

$1.5Mil for a sound system? probably could do better than junk amps for that lind of money.
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