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Old 09-23-2019, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,560 posts, read 9,644,236 times
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Prius is the polarizing hybrid icon from Toyota, but its sales are declining, and the new RAV4 hybrid is selling well

"Through the first half of 2019, the RAV4 hybrid sold more units than the entire Toyota Prius lineup, if only just, at 29,319 units to 29,241 units."
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...d-prius-sales/
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Old 04-04-2021, 02:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
"Through the first half of 2019, the RAV4 hybrid sold more units than the entire Toyota Prius lineup, if only just, at 29,319 units to 29,241 units."
Toyota Motor North America Reports December 2019, Year-End Sales
The final end of year numbers for 2019
RAV4 Hybrid 92,525 units
Prius, 69,718 units.

Toyota Motor North America Reports December 2020, Year-End Sales

In 2020 Toyota Crossovers and SUVs outsell cars by 38%, but hybrid Crossovers and SUVS outsell hybrid cars by 86%.

In 2020 the Toyota hybrid SUVs and Crossovers almost doubled hybrid car sales with both the RAV4 and the Highlander outselling the Prius. The Venza and the Sienna are new to the hybrid categories.

2020 Hybrid SUVs & Crossovers
115,974 TOYOTA RAV4 HYBRID 26.9%
48,455 TOYOTA HIGHLANDER HYBRID 22.8%
13,073 TOYOTA VENZA HYBRID 100.0%
9,690 TOYOTA SIENNA HYBRID 45.5%
3,200 TOYOTA RAV4 PRIME 0.7%
190,392 22.7%

2020 Hybrid cars
43,525 TOYOTA PRIUS HYBRID 100.0%
33,826 TOYOTA CAMRY HYBRID 11.5%
17,628 TOYOTA COROLLA HYBRID 15.1%
6,714 TOYOTA AVALON HYBRID 36.4%
499 TOYOTA MIRAI 100.0%
102,192 16.8%

Toyota sold over 21,000 Yaris cars in 2019, but they are discontinuing that line with just over 6500 sold in 2020. They are also discontinuing the Toyota 86 sports car (2,500 units sold in 2020). Their sole remaining car that will not come with a hybrid option is the Supra sportscar which sold under 6,000 units in 2020.

It is not clear about the four remaining SUVs that do not have the hybrid option.
  1. 2021 Toyota C-HR 3.4 gal/100mi
  2. 2021 Toyota 4Runner 4WD 5.9 gal/100mi (130,000 units in 2020)
  3. 2021 Toyota Sequoia 4WD 7.1 gal/100mi
  4. 2021 Toyota Land Cruiser Wagon 4WD 7.1 gal/100mi
It is also questionable if the pick up trucks, the Tacoma and the Tundra will ever come with the hybrid option.
================================================
Toyota still sells only two plug-in modes. The plug-in Prius is considerably cheaper than the plug-in RAV4.

There are skeptics that wonder why Toyota is still selling the mild hybrid Prius since the hybrid Corolla costs slighly less and gets the same mileage.

2021 Toyota Prius 1.9 gal/100mi
2021 Toyota Corolla Hybrid 1.9 gal/100mi

SAME FOR BOTH MODELS
The 2020 Toyota Corolla Hybrid,vBase Price: $24,055
The 2020 Toyota Prius, Base Price: $25,155 (L Eco trim)
Powertrain: 1.8-liter inline-four with two electric motors and a 1.3-kWh nickel-metal hydride battery | CVTi transmission | front-wheel drive
Horsepower: 121 horsepower @ 5,200 RPM
Torque: 105 pound-feet of torque @ 3,600 RPM

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MODELS
The 2020 Toyota Corolla Hybrid,vBase Price: $24,055
Curb Weight: 3,050 pounds
Cargo Volume: 13.1 cu. ft.

The 2020 Toyota Prius, Base Price: $25,155 (L Eco trim)
Optional AWD
Curb Weight: 3,075 pounds
Cargo Volume: 27.4 cu. ft.

So the Cargo Volume is the big difference. However, if your neighbors look into your driveway and see a Prius they think you are eco-conscious while if they see a Corolla they think you simply have an inexpensive automobile. So the mild hybrid Prius is still handily outselling the hybrid Corolla by a large margin.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 04-04-2021 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 06-02-2021, 10:48 PM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,617,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
Prius is the polarizing hybrid icon from Toyota, but its sales are declining, and the new RAV4 hybrid is selling well]
Toyota badly needs the hybrid program to do well in the US, and it isn't really growing. They are keeping the program going by introducing new models periodically, but mostly they seem to grab a market share from the Prius, but then sales lag in a few years.

Toyota has triumphantly announced that all models will have a hybrid option by 2025, and it is true that the Sienna and Venza which are now only available in hybrid only models are going to push the total number of hybrids sold to roughly half a million in 2021.

I seriously doubt that they will accomplish their stated objective of selling 40% of US vehicle sales hybrids by 2025, and 70% by the year 2030.


Total hybrids - Year - % Prius - introduction of new hybrid model
5,562 2000 100% Prius
15,556 2001 100%
20,119 2002 100%
24,627 2003 100%
53,991 2004 100%
125,886 2005 86% Highlander
169,797 2006 63% Camry
257,750 2007 70%
224,549 2008 71%
173,655 2009 80%
162,971 2010 86%
150,253 2011 91%
276,230 2012 81% Avalon
288,126 2013 77%
254,292 2014 76%
228,708 2015 79% RAV4
215,879 2016 62%
181,123 2017 48%
153,552 2018 39%
207,529 2019 23% Corolla
292,584 2020 15% Sienna and Venza

Last edited by PacoMartin; 06-03-2021 at 12:17 AM..
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Old 06-05-2021, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,560 posts, read 9,644,236 times
Reputation: 16037
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
Toyota badly needs the hybrid program to do well in the US, and it isn't really growing. They are keeping the program going by introducing new models periodically, but mostly they seem to grab a market share from the Prius, but then sales lag in a few years.

Toyota has triumphantly announced that all models will have a hybrid option by 2025, and it is true that the Sienna and Venza which are now only available in hybrid only models are going to push the total number of hybrids sold to roughly half a million in 2021.

I seriously doubt that they will accomplish their stated objective of selling 40% of US vehicle sales hybrids by 2025, and 70% by the year 2030.
:
:
Given that some people just seem set on ICE vehicles, and others just seem set on EVs, I don't think 70% is realistic. Honda is also said to be betting big on hybrids near-term at least.

I will say though, that I think there's a good argument for conventional hybrids for anyone who says they're environmentally conscious but doesn't think EVs are a good option (yet). Not sure why these don't sell better as 30% better mileage is achievable. They sell okay, and word is that the F-150 hybrid is selling well.

And even more so for plug-in-hybrids with a big enough battery to allow EV-mode commuting, everyday errands, local trips - that's an EV 95% of the time, and then becomes an ICE on longer trips so no reliance on charging networks - it's the best of both worlds IMO. There are only two of these though - the RAV4 Prime PHEV and the Honda Clarity PHEV. The Clarity is said by all to offer a very good experience, but it's styled like a large Prius - not a great move. The RAV4 Prime is supposed to be selling well though. Not sure why the automakers have so *few* PHEVs with enough electric range for everyday driving - little point in making one for most drivers, IMO, if it's only got 20mi of EV range - might as well make a conventional hybrid, but that's just what most automakers have done. 30mi of EV range is where is starts to get more useful IMO, and 50mi of EV range wouldn't be overkill.

For my part, I would absolutely buy a hybrid, but it needs to be the vehicle I want first, and then have the good hybrid powertrain at a fair price second - that's the priority. I am not going to buy some random hybrid just for the powertrain, or if they will charge me an unrealistic hybrid premium for a lame hybrid setup (looking at you Subaru Crosstrek).

Last edited by OutdoorLover; 06-05-2021 at 10:48 AM..
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Old 06-06-2021, 11:53 PM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,617,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
And even more so for plug-in-hybrids with a big enough battery to allow EV-mode commuting, everyday errands, local trips - that's an EV 95% of the time, and then becomes an ICE on longer trips so no reliance on charging networks - it's the best of both worlds IMO. There are only two of these though - the RAV4 Prime PHEV and the Honda Clarity PHEV.
Toyota has been extremely vocal about their worldview that PHEV are just as environmentally friendly as BEV if you factor in the environmental cost of producing batteries.

Quote:
The key point is that a BEV and PHEV can provide similar environmental benefits. Each has a unique profile and can be an optimal solution in different circumstances. By having a diversified product portfolio with multiple forms of vehicle electrification, Toyota can let consumers choose the model that best suits their usage needs and cost profile while maximizing the total contribution to Green House Gas reduction.
Toyota to Debut Three New Electrified Vehicles for U.S. Market February 10, 2021
PHEV are more popular in Europe compared to the US. The recently released RAV4 Prime has been a showpiece for PHEV in the United States in particular for it's 0 to 60 mph 5.7 second acceleration as well as the 42 mile range with a battery. The average American vehicle is driven for an average of 41 miles per day, although we can presume that most people drive a lot less on most days, with some longer trips over 100 miles in a day.


Miles MSRP Make/Model Battery (kWh) {data as of November 2020}
  • 47 $33,400 Honda Clarity PHEV 17 kWh
  • 42 $38,100 Toyota RAV4 Prime 18 kWh
  • 29 $24,950 Hyundai IONIQ PHEV 9 kWh
  • 29 $35,210 Kia Optima Plug-In Hybrid 10 kWh
  • 26 $27,900 Kia Niro PHEV 9 kWh
  • 25 $27,100 Toyota Prius Prime 9 kWh
  • 22 $34,595 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 14 kWh
  • 17 $35,970 Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid (PHEV) 9 kWh
    ...
  • 12 $36,800 Mini Cooper S E Countryman All4 8 kWh
  • 33 $41,995 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid 16 kWh
  • 21 $47,995 Jeep Wrangler 4xe 17 kWh

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
I am not going to buy some random hybrid just for the powertrain, or if they will charge me an unrealistic hybrid premium for a lame hybrid setup (looking at you Subaru Crosstrek).
Presumably with Toyota's increased investment in Subaru, they will put an 18 kWh battery in later versions. Toyota should also put an 18 kWh battery in the Prius Prime.

Quote:
Toyota Motor North America (TMNA) announced plans to debut in the U.S. market this year a PHEV. - February 10, 2021
It is not clear which Toyota vehicle will be the new PHEV. Some people theorize that that since the announcement came from TNMA, that it is referring to a Lexus

Last edited by PacoMartin; 06-07-2021 at 01:01 AM..
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:28 AM
 
Location: In the heights
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It would seem likely that the next PHEV from Toyota would be the Lexus NX300 as the premium equivalent of the RAV4 Prime.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:23 PM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,617,582 times
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
It would seem likely that the next PHEV from Toyota would be the Lexus NX300 as the premium equivalent of the RAV4 Prime.
I agree, that makes a lot of sense.

However, the current Tundra’s 5.7-liter V-8 delivers output of 381 horsepower and 401 pound-feet of torque, but Toyota executives have promised that the 2022 Tundra’s base engine will be “a core powertrain that’s substantially more powerful in terms of horsepower and torque than the current V-8.” The presumption is also that a new V-8 is out of the question.

I literally do not know how they will do that without putting a PHEV in the Tundra. Perhaps they will surprise us and make two new PHEV's next year.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 06-10-2021 at 03:31 PM..
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Old 06-12-2021, 12:06 PM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,617,582 times
Reputation: 7783
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
It would seem likely that the next PHEV from Toyota would be the Lexus NX300 as the premium equivalent of the RAV4 Prime.
Well it looks as if your guess was correct. The PHEV will be the Lexus NX450h. I am curious how they are going to power the 2022 Tundra.

Lexus offered a hybrid NX in the previous generation model, the NX 350h, and continues to do so for this new model. But this is the first time you can get a plug-in hybrid.

The NX 450h+ is one of just a few small luxury SUVs that offer plug-in hybrid powertrains. The Audi Q5, BMW X3 and Volvo XC60 are the most notable alternatives. While Lexus hasn't released an official price as of this writing, we estimate the 2022 Lexus NX 450h+ will start around $47,000. Look for it to arrive at Lexus dealerships in the fall of 2021.

Estimated 0-60 mph in 6 seconds; 36 miles of EV range, presuming the battery is 18.1 kWh like the Rav4 Prime.

I'm not sure why the Lexus can't get the same 42 miles of EV range, as well as the same 5.7 seconds of acceleration as the RAV4. The Lexus NX is the same curb weight and the same height as the RAV4. The Lexus must have a higher Coefficient of Drag.

Maybe they are under predicting the acceleration and EV range so when the official numbers come in they are better than the prediction.
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