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Old 04-13-2010, 04:16 AM
 
404 posts, read 1,555,956 times
Reputation: 219

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Claiming a major "safety risk," the well respected consumers union deals another headache to Toyota. From the CR site itself

Consumer Reports Cars Blog: Don't Buy: Safety Risk--2010 Lexus GX 460

And the news media is getting it:

'Consumer Reports' says Lexus GX 460 is too unsafe to buy - Drive On: A conversation about the cars and trucks we drive - USATODAY.com

Consumer Reports warns against 2010 Lexus GX460 | freep.com | Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/article/20100413/BUSINESS01/4130334/1322/Consumer-Reports-warns-against-2010-Lexus-GX460 - broken link)


Thoughts, etc?
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:17 AM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,659,127 times
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I think we're starting to see a reversal of fortunes between the American and Japanese automakers. GM and Ford are on a winning streak with their latest models, while Toyota and Honda keep hitting foul balls.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:08 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,668,651 times
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I thought Consumer Reports was a division of Toyota Motor Corp?

Anyway, it really doesn't seem like a major issue, not one worthy of labeling it a major safety risk. A little more tuning of the stability control system and "nanny" will have that tail end tucked right in.

To me this is just further evidence of why Consumer Reports is a load of crap.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,159,468 times
Reputation: 9270
Do you actually READ Consumer Reports? If you did, you would see that for many years now CR has rated several Toyotas rather poorly. The Yaris is not a recommended vehicle. Neither is the FJ. Although both are very reliable, they perform relatively poorly in tests.

Toyotas have generally faired well in CR. But they value practical issure more highly than an enthusiast magazine.

When you pay over $50K for a SUV, its stability control ought to behave better than the 95 that didn't fail that particular test.
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:44 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,668,651 times
Reputation: 14622
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Do you actually READ Consumer Reports? If you did, you would see that for many years now CR has rated several Toyotas rather poorly. The Yaris is not a recommended vehicle. Neither is the FJ. Although both are very reliable, they perform relatively poorly in tests.

Toyotas have generally faired well in CR. But they value practical issure more highly than an enthusiast magazine.

When you pay over $50K for a SUV, its stability control ought to behave better than the 95 that didn't fail that particular test.
I have read CR, I'm just really not a fan of how they compile their data and what they use to rate vehicles. They are the epitome of car as appliance where resale value and percieved quality tend to trump all. I tend to prefer the methodology used by JD Power. I know that for a lot of people CR is a valuable resource and I won't begrudge anyone for taking their advice, but they do have a decidedly Asian slant.

I would agree that the Lexus shouldn't have failed that test and it is a major oversight on their part to not have the system tuned correctly. However, it is an easily correctable issue and not a larger inherent flaw in the design.
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,159,468 times
Reputation: 9270
I think JD Power ratings are junk. First of all the 90 day quality is meaningless. Second, their total sample size is just tens of thousands of vehicles. Third - they ask too many detail areas for their respondents. Finally they accept funds from the automakers. They are not neutral.

CR is what they are. Keep in mind that they do test sports cars and other interesting vehicles. If you read what they actually say - it not hard to see that they like Corvettes and Boxters.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:10 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,668,651 times
Reputation: 14622
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Boxters.
That right there shows they have no idea WTF they're talking about, lol.

Anyway, I just personally don't like them. I've read their reviews quite frequently and I just find that my personal experience and intuition leads me to some very different conclusions.

Probably one of the best sites is TrueDelta for actual vehicle dependability and issues. The guy who runs it may not have the largest sample size, but his data is a nice blend of objective and subjective and I have found them to be right on most of the time.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:11 AM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,668,568 times
Reputation: 7738
I have quite a bit of experience with Toyotas doing these exact same tests and more(I have thousands of laps at speed in toyotas in all conditions and on various paved and unpaved tracks) and many of them have the exact same problems. In my humble opinion, the stability control is noticeably slower to respond and also have a number of weight transfer characteristics that upset the handling, not to mention either horrible understeer or lift off oversteer.

Anytime we have taken a toyota and had it compared to other manufacturers and their vehicles in that class(mid size sedan, large SUV, whatever) the toyota always finishes at the bottom when it comes to vehicle dynamics.

In my opinion, it comes down to two problems I see with the company:

1. Toyota got lazy and like Mercedes had built up the name so well and then made a conscious decision to cut corners(both publicly in years past let it slip that they felt they were overdoing it on quality so they scaled back on that). Again if you compare a toyota side by side with a competitor, usually the price is sky high, but the build quality is crap with cheap, flimsy materials.

2. Toyota made a conscious decision to have a vehicle built for every imaginable market segment. Everything from a subcompact 2 door to a large truck to a luxury sedan. They've spread themselves thin, trying to do everything rather than just doing a few things well.

On the consumer side I think the other issue is toyotas are as plain as refrigerators. I find the people that buy them don't care about cars or about driving. So dynamic problems such as this Lexus just go unnoticed cause they don't know any better.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:38 AM
 
Location: between Ath,GR & Mia,FL...
2,574 posts, read 2,486,556 times
Reputation: 327
J.D Powers is as good as it gets...

We should not question each other tastes ,but the reality is that Toyota & Honda are 2 of the best in the world.
So,the unfair criticism is wrong...Taste is subjective,quality is objective...
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,159,468 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrymiafl View Post
J.D Powers is as good as it gets...
Please explain.
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