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It absolutely chaffs me that Americans are expected to follow every silly custom the world over or be labeled as the dreaded "ugly American." But the world absolutely expects to be able to visit here and do whatever the [censored] they want. It doesn't surprise me in the least that servers are sick of dealing with them. I don't agree with it. But it doesn't surprise me.
Completely agree!
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EDIT -- When I visit England (and I visit OFTEN), I pay more in VAT than UK residents who visit America pay in tips. There's VAT added on to EVERYTHING. You never, ever, ever see Americans heading to internet fora to whinge on about the VAT and why should we have to pay for the Queen's Land Rover. Yet every time the issue of tipping at restaurants comes up, Europeans (and particularly people from the UK) act as if we're extracting teeth along with the 20% tip.
I'd also point out that it's mostly the Brits complaining about tipping. The Germans, Swedes, Swiss, Spaniards, Flemish, etc. might not care for it, but at least they don't whine about it incessantly.
As the saying goes, "When in Rome." There are numerous things I don't care for about Europe--hotel rooms that haven't been redone since the Dark Ages unless you pay for a luxury hotel; VAT; pickpockets everywhere; the lackadaisical attitude about service or pretty much anything involving keeping a schedule (Germany excluded in the latter); the insane cost of petrol and cab fares; the fuel surcharges and departure taxes; the kamikaze scooter drivers; the list goes on.
Instead of complaining about it, I just acknowledge that it's part of their culture. Don't we travel to experience other cultures?
Howdo Scoop....... When in Rome, I do as the Romans do. As you say, if I want to visit America, I have to follow the expected rules........ and I do. But it doesn't make it right, does it? Plus I don't like waitresses hovering round me when I get up to leave........ the tips on the table for gawds sake..........
not sure where you are eating that people are hovering as you are leaving. It's not something I experience.
Then you are in the minority. Half the time, the guests give the server a lesson about wages in London and leave nothing as a tip. Servers don't need an economics lesson after working hard to take care of a foreign visitor. They're going to pay income taxes on the money that the US government expects that they will receive, whether they receive it or not. There is a reason that visitors from the UK are starting to get the cold shoulder from American servers.
Surely you have noticed it?
I sure have Scoop...... I've been visiting a long time, so I know the rules, but it still doesn't make it right. I am often told, "ah, well, you pay less for your meal in America than in Europe. So with the tip, it just makes it the same. I can't say I notice that to be true. Obviously, restaurant prices will vary, so it's hard to compare. But, the minimum wage in England is $10 per hour approx, and as you say, we pay high VAT on something as simple as a big mac from McDonalds...... A big mac in England, will cost you £2.59p served by $10 an hour at least workers. This is approx $4. I believe, and hopefully I'm correct, a big mac in the US is more than it is here in England, served by workers earning less. Why is that?
I would like to add that roughly half the people who come here "get it." They mentally add the tip to the price of things and buy accordingly. Or they eat at places where tipping is not customary. It is easy to find great food in this country and not have to tip anyone.
The other half -- they're freakin' economics professors every time they receive their bill at an American restaurant. If they would knock it off, we wouldn't have to constantly remind them how things work on this side of the Atlantic*.
It's just like when I go to Italy, I know I'm going to pay more for the coffee if I sit at a table on the patio to enjoy it. Italians who don't want to pay extra stand at the counter. And so do I, if I don't feel like sitting.
* There are two groups in America named the NRA. One is the gun-rights advocacy group -- National Rifle Association -- which pushes for guns to be sold in vending machines in elementary schools. The other is the National Restaurant Association, which shovels money at Congress to keep the wages of tipped employees at $2.33 per hour. Europeans always ask why our tipping culture is the way it is. That's why. It still costs less than the VAT, so I don't see why people complain about it.
I'd also point out that it's mostly the Brits complaining about tipping. The Germans, Swedes, Swiss, Spaniards, Flemish, etc. might not care for it, but at least they don't whine about it incessantly.
Hey come on now annerk....... you don't mention the French and Scottish. The Scottish are known to be careful with a buck......
I sure have Scoop...... I've been visiting a long time, so I know the rules, but it still doesn't make it right. I am often told, "ah, well, you pay less for your meal in America than in Europe. So with the tip, it just makes it the same. I can't say I notice that to be true. Obviously, restaurant prices will vary, so it's hard to compare. But, the minimum wage in England is $10 per hour approx, and as you say, we pay high VAT on something as simple as a big mac from McDonalds...... A big mac in England, will cost you £2.59p served by $10 an hour at least workers. This is approx $4. I believe, and hopefully I'm correct, a big mac in the US is more than it is here in England, served by workers earning less. Why is that?
There is more to it than the hourly cost of labor. You also have to factor in the taxes that the employer is responsible for, the workers comp insurance, benefits (yes, some get them), etc. Because the government socializes so much in the UK, the employer pays less.
I'd also suggest that at the end of the day, the employee in the UK and the employee in the US end up with the same amount of change in their pocket after all the taxes and paid benefits as the UK has a much higher tax rate.
By the way, the Big Mac is right around $4 here in the US as well, because they are always on special.
There is more to it than the hourly cost of labor. You also have to factor in the taxes that the employer is responsible for, the workers comp insurance, benefits (yes, some get them), etc. Because the government socializes so much in the UK, the employer pays less.
I'd also suggest that at the end of the day, the employee in the UK and the employee in the US end up with the same amount of change in their pocket after all the taxes and paid benefits as the UK has a much higher tax rate.
By the way, the Big Mac is right around $4 here in the US as well, because they are always on special.
About the same price for a Big Mac in the US as here huh. Well, we have 20% VAT and $10 an hour workers built in our Big Mac price. So how come with less tax, and lower wages, the price in America is the same? So much for cheaper in America.
By the way, the Big Mac is right around $4 here in the US as well, because they are always on special.
I was wrong in the price I quoted for a big mac in England. It's cheaper! I have a leaflet pushed through my door for local McDonald's prices.
Big Mac and medium fries...... £1.99 (approx $3.20). All the following are the same $3.20. Quarter pounder with cheese, and medium fries. Double cheeseburger and large fries. Big Mac and medium soft drink. These prices include VAT. Served by workers on at least $10 an hour.
These are obviously not restaurant prices, which are more difficult to compare. But this shows in an example like McDonald's, we are not vastly more expensive in this country, than America.
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When in Rome, I do as the Romans do. As you say, if I want to visit America, I have to follow the expected rules........ and I do. But it doesn't make it right, does it? Plus I don't like waitresses hovering round me when I get up to leave........ the tips on the table for gawds sake..........
