Tokyo- Apartment or Hotel? (cost, rentals, Paris, hotels)
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I'm heading to Tokyo in mid May. My brother and I have always wanted to do Japan and this year I have enough money to book the trip for us.
A little background... I'm 26, he's 20. We do like to "go out" but that's not a top priority. We'll be on a tighter budget, but are willing to spend on the right things (namely cultural and culinary experiences that can't be missed). While we've never been to Japan, we are fairly well traveled (all over US, Canada, Mexico, Caribbean, etc. as well as Spain, Ireland, France, Germany, Netherlands, India, Sri Lanka and Thailand) so we ARE comfortable outside of the confines of a Western style hotel. Not only is cooking our own meals not a problem, We are looking forward to the opportunity to check out local markets and stores and try our hand with local ingredients (I like to prepare my own maki/sushi here at home). While the subway maps are incredibly intimidating at first glance, we'll be utilizing transit (no car) and kind of welcome the challenge.
In my experience, vacation rentals can be as good as (or better than) hotels in terms of value; but sometimes that's not the case. I've rented in Paris, Amsterdam and the Yosemite area and felt I got a far better deal than I would have in a hotel. At the same time, I've seen plenty of places where it just doesn't make financial sense to get the apartment (i.e. Jamaiaca, Cancun, DR, etc. where there are all sorts of all-inclusive resorts).
All things equal (price, location) or even close, I prefer the apartment. In the past I've felt renting an apartment provides a much more authentic experience. However, I'm just wondering if anyone has done one or the other in Tokyo and has any suggestions. I've browsed a few on trusted sites like Homeaway and VRBO (as well as some Tokyo-based sites) and have liked what I've seen. It's just so far out of my realm of familiarity, I'd like to here from people here on City-Data.
Hi. I worked in Tokyo for 11 years. So here we go ------
"Vacation rental" or Hotel:
The Japanese avoid , absolutely, dealing with strangers. The choice does not exist in Japan, unless a non-Japanese is looking to rent to tourists. YIKES the idea is frightening!-- a non-citizen fiddling around with real estate with another non-citizen! Zounds! The legal implications are terrifying. If you hear of a place to transient foreigners, stay away like the plague! You cannot begin to imagine how much trouble -- as in police -- you could get into since you know nothing about the language.
Hotels aboud, in all price ranges. They are clean, and if you have a lock on your hotel room door they are safe, probably safe even if you don't have a lock on the door. Japan is a spectacularly safe place to be. The more expensive the hotel, the more the managerial and front desk staff will speak English, which will save you a lot of headaches, mysteries, confusion and time.
FYR, I speak Japanese pretty well, and read enough Japanese to get through real life day after day, year after year. I personally would not even consider a VR, unless the owner was a native-English speaker, provided multitudes of photographs including pix of the bathroom, and provided me with at least a week to have my lawyer review the rental agreement. The real estate laws in Japan are so complicated, and the owner is required to have sponsorship from person(s) with strong financial collateral, that the legalities involved are breathtaking. I, who actually know about these things, would not dream of putting myself into this scary legal situation.
Reserving your money for "cultural and culinary" experiences:
You don't need lots of money for the culinary part. All over Japan you'll find that restaurants have smallish display windows outside in front of the restaurant, exhibiting plasticmodels of the dishes they serve with a little sign at each dish identifying it (in Japanese, of course) with the price. You will be able to read the price, Y650 or whatever. Restaurants with no plastic models are extremely -- hugely -- expensive and are actually private clubs to a large degree. When you choose a plastic model that interests you, you can go inside, gesture toward the window, and say in English that you want to point to something in the window. They won't understand a word you're saying but they're used to this performance, and someone will walk back outside with you to the window. Point to the dish(es) you want, say "Please", walk back inside, and you will get exactly what you requested.
Food in these restaurants is nicely inexpensive. If you stay in restaurants that have Japanese customers, you will:
-- eat inexpensively
-- east nutritriously
-- eat the real thing
-- all that and no tipping.
Trains around town, subways, taxis:
This is how you want to get around. taxis are wonderful, comfortable, not as expensive as U.S. taxis. Get a street map of Tokyo, study tripadvisor.com and Lonely Planet as though you're cramming for finals. Don't depend on the locals to answer your questions: it's a long story involving Buddhism and Confucianism, and the fact that they don't understand English spoken by native-speakers, so they can't help you. Depend heavily on your own research and on your hotel's front desk people.
Getting written directions, or the written name of a place, from the front desk to present to a taxi driver is ideal. Tip your taxi driver. Check Lonely Planet for current %.
In Tokyo if you make full use of the Yamanote Line train which takes you all around the city in a cirlce, in either direction, you'll have fun seeing everything from 25 feet above ground. Subways are fine, and fast, but you can get to most places by the Yamanote line and actually see things. Your hotel front desk will draw you a little map to show you how to walk to the closest Yamanote Line station.
I hope this odd sprinkling of info has been helpful.
One more thought: mid-May is a wonderful time of year in Tokyo. Warm, not hot yet. Not humid yet. Some of the momo (peach blossom) trees may still be in bloom - great froths of small, light-peach colored flowers. A very comfortable time of yer.
If you must delay your trip, know that much of June is rainy season when the monsoons come from India and deluge the city day after day for 2 to 3 weeks... So please do your best to stay with May. June, July and August are very hot and very humid. Most of September is too and there's also the second rainy season for 2 weeks solid. But hey, October is beautiful!
Thanks! I did a lot of research on the best times to travel. I've booked my flights and I'll be there May 8-17th. I spent time in India (Chennai) during the monsoons. That's not an experience I'm looking to recreate. I'm a bit of a photographer so having some nice color and spring blooms will be great!
Hi. I worked in Tokyo for 11 years. So here we go ------
"Vacation rental" or Hotel:
The Japanese avoid , absolutely, dealing with strangers. The choice does not exist in Japan, unless a non-Japanese is looking to rent to tourists. YIKES the idea is frightening!-- a non-citizen fiddling around with real estate with another non-citizen! Zounds! The legal implications are terrifying. If you hear of a place to transient foreigners, stay away like the plague! You cannot begin to imagine how much trouble -- as in police -- you could get into since you know nothing about the language.
Hotels aboud, in all price ranges. They are clean, and if you have a lock on your hotel room door they are safe, probably safe even if you don't have a lock on the door. Japan is a spectacularly safe place to be. The more expensive the hotel, the more the managerial and front desk staff will speak English, which will save you a lot of headaches, mysteries, confusion and time.
FYR, I speak Japanese pretty well, and read enough Japanese to get through real life day after day, year after year. I personally would not even consider a VR, unless the owner was a native-English speaker, provided multitudes of photographs including pix of the bathroom, and provided me with at least a week to have my lawyer review the rental agreement. The real estate laws in Japan are so complicated, and the owner is required to have sponsorship from person(s) with strong financial collateral, that the legalities involved are breathtaking. I, who actually know about these things, would not dream of putting myself into this scary legal situation.
Reserving your money for "cultural and culinary" experiences:
You don't need lots of money for the culinary part. All over Japan you'll find that restaurants have smallish display windows outside in front of the restaurant, exhibiting plasticmodels of the dishes they serve with a little sign at each dish identifying it (in Japanese, of course) with the price. You will be able to read the price, Y650 or whatever. Restaurants with no plastic models are extremely -- hugely -- expensive and are actually private clubs to a large degree. When you choose a plastic model that interests you, you can go inside, gesture toward the window, and say in English that you want to point to something in the window. They won't understand a word you're saying but they're used to this performance, and someone will walk back outside with you to the window. Point to the dish(es) you want, say "Please", walk back inside, and you will get exactly what you requested.
Food in these restaurants is nicely inexpensive. If you stay in restaurants that have Japanese customers, you will:
-- eat inexpensively
-- east nutritriously
-- eat the real thing
-- all that and no tipping.
Trains around town, subways, taxis:
This is how you want to get around. taxis are wonderful, comfortable, not as expensive as U.S. taxis. Get a street map of Tokyo, study tripadvisor.com and Lonely Planet as though you're cramming for finals. Don't depend on the locals to answer your questions: it's a long story involving Buddhism and Confucianism, and the fact that they don't understand English spoken by native-speakers, so they can't help you. Depend heavily on your own research and on your hotel's front desk people.
Getting written directions, or the written name of a place, from the front desk to present to a taxi driver is ideal. Tip your taxi driver. Check Lonely Planet for current %.
In Tokyo if you make full use of the Yamanote Line train which takes you all around the city in a cirlce, in either direction, you'll have fun seeing everything from 25 feet above ground. Subways are fine, and fast, but you can get to most places by the Yamanote line and actually see things. Your hotel front desk will draw you a little map to show you how to walk to the closest Yamanote Line station.
I hope this odd sprinkling of info has been helpful.
My only experince with renting in Japan (Okinawa as well) was in the military but I'd agree that my impression was that renting an apt (without help) is very challenging.
The Yamanote is excellant (as are Taxi's) for getting around. I never attempted the subways (clausiphobic!)
My only experince with renting in Japan (Okinawa as well) was in the military but I'd agree that my impression was that renting an apt (without help) is very challenging.
The Yamanote is excellant (as are Taxi's) for getting around. I never attempted the subways (clausiphobic!)
I don't think I'd attempt cooking in my room/apt since there are so many cheap and excellant eateries everywhere.
I'd also keep in mind that the Japanese tend to dress nicer than their American counterparts. Esp around Tokoyo
Thanks. Just for clarification, this is the website I had seen the rentals on (cross posted on VRBO and Homeaway too). The prices seemed reasonable (May is off peak), and the person I had emailed back and forth with was cordial and informative. I've booked our flights and the first two nights hotel stay (May 9 and 10) so I'm likely going to steer clear of the apartment rentals. Staying in hotels the entire time is looking more and more like the wise choice since we want flexibility.
Instead of opening a new thread, do any of you have suggestions for day trips or overnights from Tokyo?
I'm tempted to do a trip to the Hakone/Lake Ashinoko area and spend a night there. I'm having a hard time getting information though.
I will not have a car, so any thing I do has to be accessible by bus or train. Still on a moderate/cheap budget. While we're not into Mountain climbing, a little walking or even hiking is no problem. I would love something where I can take lots of photos. Mt. Fuji intrigues me, but I'd also love to see some historic villages or smaller cities.
Any suggestions? Thanks again, the replies have been very helpful.
WOW! Your climate research = May 8 - 17. You are two of the wisest travelers I've seen in a long time!! You chose the calmest, loveliest, most comfortable time of the year in Tokyo, in most of Japan in fact. Good work!
Ahhh, Neko-chan ("Bakeneko") offers very wise advice, on all points.
[P.S. There's a sudden, complicated, delightful in-joke that happened here: Neko is the Japanese word for "cat".
I am "allforcats".
The previous poster is "bakeneko". Bakemono is "ghost", which helps in understanding bakeneko which is a "monster cat", insane cat, killer? cat, and so on. -chan is the suffix used in addressing pets, all small children, one's own children of any age, one's younger siblings, and very close friends -- and never said to strangers, except by foreigner ex-pats, who enjoy breaking rules. What a lovely serendipity!]
The language advice sounds great. Also the clothing -- no tank tops, trousers not shorts, shoes not open sandals.
I thought of something else that really matters. DO NOT under any circumstances try to enter Japan with pornography mags, or any substance that's illegal in the U.S. such as pot. You'll be turned around and sent home for the porno, and for attempting to take "illicit drugs" into Japan you'll face arrest, quick trial, be definitely convicted, and do hard labor for 10 years.
As I'm sure you've experienced by now, two your men, one 26 and one 20, raide the suspicious hackles of the Customs officials of many countries. It would be such a good idea if you got off the plane in not-jeans, a light blue business-style shirt (short or long sleeves), and shoes you would wear to the office. A tie isn't necessary, but if you decide to go full costume make the ties dull and boring. OBJECTIVE: to NOT stand out in a crowd. Old Japanese axiom: "The nail that sticks up will get hammered down".
Hakone will be fun, and you will enhance your sense of being in a foreign country because it will look like not-city in the people and the buildings. And know that Hakone is where lots of Japanese from all over the country go to rest and vacation.
You originally mentioned your interest in "cultural" experiences. Here are two places that will bathe you in "traditional Japan". And you'll do quite a lot of walking all day to cover all the sights.
Kyoto
Kyoto (pronounced not Kee -oh but one quick sound KYO-toh) is to Japan as Boston is to the U.S., only far more so. For many centuries Kyoto was the "capital" of Japan. It was a courtly city for the elite, the educated, the arrogant, the inbred, the wealthy. Youll find studying about Kyoto quite interesting.
There are many castles preserved in Kyoto, and even the downtown has some of the traditional wood architecture. Food in Kyoto is traditionally different from food in Tokyo, Osaka, or anywhere else. The food was develloped by the courtiers and tends to be rather bland in flavor.
You get from Tokyo to Kyoto by Shinkansen, the bullet train. That gives you a chance to see the countriside and in May the rice paddies, farm buildings, and so on. If you leave Tokyo very early in the morning, you can do Kyoto in one long day trip if you wish.
There will be wonderful old castles, temples, shrines, lakes and blossoming trees to phograph.
Nikko
I have four equally-favorite places on Earth. Nikko is one of them.
Nikko (pronounced Nee-koh) is a fairly short Shinkansen ride from Tokyo. Can be one in a longish day.
Nikko is very old. It's a cedar forest, with trees so tall they feel like green dreams rising to the sky. Long ago, people began erecting Shinto shrines, now beautifully represented by Futaarasan, which are made of wood and seem plain but are architecturally seductive. When the ruling powers changed, the tomb of Toshogu was built with lots of money and Chinese artisans. Then the tomb of the son, Tokugawa Ieyasu, was built with a little less money. Both tombs are spectacularly ornate, in a kind of riot combination of Chinese taste and Japanese taste. Toshogu is where you can easily see, and phograph, the famous three monkeys who see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil. There is also a famous, beautiful carving of a Nemuri Neko, Sleeping Cat. The carvings are painted every color in the rainbow and will take your breath away.
There's so much to photograph here that that is genuinely Japanese, from moss-covered stone lanterns to Shinto priests ringing the bell to Japanese tourists sitting in the sun with their eyes closed. Ahhh I can smell the cedar forest now....
Getting There
You don't really need Shinkansen reservations on weekdays, but it's not a bad idea to ask the front desk of your hotel to make them for you (it's part of their job). If you take just one-day trips, you won't need hotel reservations in those cities.
The Shinkansen will pick you up at Tokyo Station . You get to Tokyo Station by taking either a taxi to "Toh-kyo [that same one-syllable quick sound] Eki" pronounced "EH-kee", or takeing the Yamanote Leine to tada! Tokyo Eki.
I would never discourage someone who wanted ferociously to climb Fujisan (this particular san means "mountain". But all the non-Japanese I've ever known who have done the climb expressed a lot of disappointment because: it's not a "fun" climb; there's littler all over the place; the crowds (of Japanese climbers) are noisy, unspiritual, and disenchanting; the climb takes too long and too much of the climb is required to be completed in one day.
I'm not certain but you can research this -- but I think the mountain is open for climbinb only in July. It's ferociously cold the rest of the year.
Fujisan is the Crown Chakra of Earth, but is not now treated with the respect that his power, and even his beauty, deserve. You will see him clearly from your Shinkansan window as you go north and then go back to Tokyo if you're still in daylight. He is ineffably beautiful. Perhaps that experience of him is sufficient?
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What a lovely serendipity!]
Trips
