Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The US has no immigration checkpoint for leaving the country and no exit stamps in passport, so how do they know you left?
I was thinking maybe it's integrated with airlines checkin or when you go through TSA checkpoint at front of security line but that doesn't make sense either since you don't really have to leave. You can turn around and stroll right back out of the airport without going through immigration. Also one can simply drive into Mexico, last time I did this there were no procedures at all so no record of exit. You could also be on a cruise and simply not get back on the ship.
You can't rely on inbound stamp from your destination, since a native might not get an arrival stamp when returning to their country. For example a British tourist leaving the US to land in London would have neither a US exit or UK entry stamp.
Any thoughts? How can they prove an overstay if there is no track of you leaving?
You can drive into Mexico, absolutely! But you can't re-enter the USA without your passport. And of course someone can get off of a cruise anywhere and not get back on. Depending on the country and length of stay one might be considered a criminal. As for stamps, everything is mostly electronic now. You think a little ink print on your passport is that big of a deal? Believe me, if you're flying they have all the info on you they need.
For Air/Sea The Airlines/Shipping companies send passenger list to HomeLand Security, They feed that data over to the sub agencies, and verify that the passenger is not on the no/fly list, Don't leave the country lists (Generally a condition of some Court Action).
Immigration also get that feed, to match on Visa's. If you are a Non/Show for the flight/Ship that data is also feed back to them.
I know the US & Canada exchange cross border data on who goes US/CAN passport holders who cross by Land (or thru Non/commercial shipping) , Not sure about US/Mex Data Exchanges or US to Caribbean.
As with most of the immigration enforcement in the US, the Fed's really don't look for visa overstays, illegal immigration, unless they do something else wrong.
Ah that last part makes sense, that the US doesn't track overstay. if I leave Thailand/Singapore/whatever five days past end of visa I pay a fine at the airport when I exit country immigration stamp out, couldn't figure out how US would enforce this. So if one overstays their US visa by a year all you have to do is drive to Tijuana, have a beer, turn around and drive back? Voila new entry stamp and clean slate with no record of an overstay.
Passenger lists would be interesting since to know who really left you'd have to update HSA after the plane left based on the someone's butt physically being in their seat when plane takes off, since anyone can check in for the flight, enter the secure zone, then turn around and leave the airport.
The Airline butt in seat scan, is done from Airline scan of the boarding pass as you get on the plane.
Can you Use your ID to get thru TSA, then give your boarding pass to someone else who has cleared security on there ID to get on the plane in your place, Yes.
Going to Mex for a beer, all depends on what kind of arrangement the US has with Mexico for data exchange.
But other then showing your visa has left the country so you could apply for a new one, (Then "Sneak" across the border out of the US) and then return with the new visa, That's alot of work...
I guess the amount of work depends on what it would cost you if you went on record as overstaying. I'm an American citizen so no idea what the penalties are, but in many other countries a long enough overstay in addition to monetary penalties can get you a nice ban from reentry for x years.
It seems US is inconsistent on entry stamps too, I remember on my last passport I had a few from US immigration but not from every entry. Current passport has nothing from US immigration despite having returned many times. Not sure if policy changed or if depends on other factors. I do like it when the immigration officer says "welcome home sir" after being outside the US for awhile, something nice about that, which of course is followed by finding a proper cheeseburger somewhere.
Immigration Mostly just swipes the OCR on the bottom of Page 1 into the computer, Newer passports have RFID Chip embedded in them so they just pass it over a reader.
They can also deploy RFID readers that can be used over larger area like over/around a Doorway that can read the chip.
If you want a Stamped you have to specifically ask for it.
Some agents do swipe/read only, Some seem to like to swipe/read & Stamp.
Not being able to re-enter the USA without your passport doesn't answer the question of how they know when you left.
They don't. They might catch you by pure accident, weeks, months, years later. But when they catch you - they deport you, and restrict the possibility of traveling here again.
If you travel via air or sea - the US processes passport details for all air passengers through a system called APIS, and ties that to the electronic I-94 (arrival and departure record). No stamp in your pass is needed.
There is an "Entry/Exit Initiative of the Perimeter Security and Economic Competitiveness Action Plan" between Canada and the US.
In the past Canada and the US keep track of the day you enter the country, but not when you left, and neither country was in the habit of sharing this information with each other. On June 30, 2014, both Canada and the US began sharing this information with one another as to when people enter and leave their respective countries. Not only that - both Canada and the US is tracking your days in and out of the country, and they have a detailed report of your whereabouts. (Snowbirds need to take it into consideration)
More here: Tracking Your Days in the U.S: A New Tool from U.S. Customs and Border Protection | The National Law Review
The south border is a different story...
The joke is that the FDA can track one cow with mad cow disease all the way back to his conception, but the immigration authorities can't find 12-15 (who knows?) million illegal aliens; so, maybe we should put the FDA in charge of immigration?
The US has no immigration checkpoint for leaving the country and no exit stamps in passport, so how do they know you left?
I was thinking maybe it's integrated with airlines checkin or when you go through TSA checkpoint at front of security line but that doesn't make sense either since you don't really have to leave. You can turn around and stroll right back out of the airport without going through immigration. Also one can simply drive into Mexico, last time I did this there were no procedures at all so no record of exit. You could also be on a cruise and simply not get back on the ship.
You can't rely on inbound stamp from your destination, since a native might not get an arrival stamp when returning to their country. For example a British tourist leaving the US to land in London would have neither a US exit or UK entry stamp.
Any thoughts? How can they prove an overstay if there is no track of you leaving?
Not sure if this helps, but I've had a multiple entry U.S. visa since 1976, in a succession of passports, my wife has been using ESTA since it was introduced.
As I recall, the f/attendants would hand out immigration and customs forms on the plane to the U.S.
On arrival at immigration, the agent would ask a few questions, then if satisfied, he'd stamp your passport, and the form, tear it where it was perforated and staple, or sometimes just place the entry form stub in your passport.
On departure from the U.S., the airline agent would remove this stub, presumably to illustrate the fact that you'd boarded a flight in the U.S., to return to the U.K.
My wife said that she thinks this was discontinued with the advent of ESTA, personally I can't remember if I had an entry stub that was taken by an airport agent when I last flew from the U.S.
I do however, recall getting to passport control at Gatwick Airport, quite a few years back, and the agent pointed out that my wife's entry immigration stub, which U.S. immigration had stapled in her passport in Atlanta, was still in place.
He said that it was absolutely vital to get this to the U.S. embassy in Grosvenor Square, London W1, before even thinking of returning to the U.S., as U.S. immigration would have no record of her departure, and as far as they were concerned she may never have left America.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
