Anyone Else Depressed About Needing Visa's for Europe? (747, beaches, easy)

[LeePNE]

Originally Posted by kamban

Most EU and some non EU Europeans get visa waiver to enter USA. So instituting a visa waiver for US citizens is the reciprocal thing for these countries to do.

Citizens of all countries should have to apply for a VISA or VISA waiver to enter any other country - In my opinion.

Originally Posted by kamban

As a whole these countries depend more on tourism from US citizens than US from these citizens. So if they institute a waiver how many might apply and get it and how many might forgo Europe for other countries. That is what they have to weigh before instituting visa waiver.

I'm curious to know where this statement comes from and what facts you have to back up your argument.


Just as an FYI for you: The World Tourism Organization reports the following destinations as the top twelve tourism earners for the year 2015, with the United States by far the top earner.


Internation Tourist Receipts:
USA - $205 Billion
China $114 Billion
Spain $54 Billion
France $45 Billion
UK $45 Billion
Thailand $44 Billion
Italy $39 Billion
Germany $36 Billion.


Please don't let the facts ruin your argument though

[kamban]

Originally Posted by LeePNE

Citizens of all countries should have to apply for a VISA or VISA waiver to enter any other country - In my opinion.

I have not problem with it but certain countries decide that tourism money is worth doing away with visa or even visa waiver and its fee and just letting people in. Let EU decide what it wants to do

I'm curious to know where this statement comes from and what facts you have to back up your argument.


Just as an FYI for you: The World Tourism Organization reports the following destinations as the top twelve tourism earners for the year 2015, with the United States by far the top earner.


Internation Tourist Receipts:
USA - $205 Billion
China $114 Billion
Spain $54 Billion
France $45 Billion
UK $45 Billion
Thailand $44 Billion
Italy $39 Billion
Germany $36 Billion.


Please don't let the facts ruin your argument though

The problem is that you have made USA in one country and EU in different countries. Since we are discussing USA visa versus EU visa let us keep the blocks together, shall we. If and when EU disintegrates into separate countries and each country institutes its own visa or visa waiver we can then compare international tourism of USA to separate European countries.

[Nonesuch]

So the EU is considering requiring US citizens to have a Visa to enter any EU nation because we have concerns about visitors from 5 specific nations -- Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania are not on the US visa waiver list because so many of their citizens are rejected when they apply for a tourist visa to visit the USA.

If the EU starts requiring visas for tourists from the USA, we will start requiring visas for their citizens; instead of just those 5 nations, all EU citizen will need a visa for entry to the United States, and this will hurt the tourism industry in the EU much more than it will hurt the industry in the USA.

Originally Posted by kamban

The problem is that you have made USA in one country and EU in different countries. Since we are discussing USA visa versus EU visa let us keep the blocks together, shall we.

Exactly -- if you lump all the EU nations together, they have a lot more to lose from making it more difficult for US tourists to enter than vice-versa.

Originally Posted by LeePNE

Citizens of all countries should have to apply for a VISA or VISA waiver to enter any other country - In my opinion.

Why? What's wrong with the current system?

I like traveling to nations where a US passports gives you quick entry just by showing proof of a return ticket dated less than 90 days in the future. The USA offers a reciprocal "No VISA" entry for short-term tourists from most EU nations, seems to work fine.

USA requires Visas from Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania because an unacceptable percentage of visa applicants from these nations are rejected when they do apply, so these nations do not qualify for the Visa Waiver Program.

[LeePNE]

I understand your point. However, what also isn't considered into the above stats is that most Europeans travel to other European Countries and therefore I assume most of venue comes from within Europe and not from USA.


My point is this, Europe is not dependant on USA for tourist money. Does it help? of course it does.

[LeePNE]

Originally Posted by Nonesuch

Why? What's wrong with the current system?

I guess my point is, it's not a big deal. It takes 2 minutes online to apply for and be accepted.

Originally Posted by Nonesuch

I like traveling to nations where a US passports gives you quick entry just by showing proof of a return ticket dated less than 90 days in the future.

Of course you do, but what makes a US passport better than any other?

Originally Posted by Nonesuch

The USA offers a reciprocal "No VISA" entry for short-term tourists from most EU nations, seems to work fine

AKA VISA Waiver. Which is waiving the right to have to obtain a VISA. This is what USA should need to enter Europe.

[shellymdnv]

Originally Posted by lieqiang

I don't get what they are a bit worried about. They are spending thousands on airfare and hotel, but the (extremely remote) possibility of needing to drop fifty bucks more for a visa causes concern? It is easy to **** that away on a taxi ride.

Exactly. The only thing that will cause American not to go is if the visa getting process is difficult. No one is going to balk at having to pay an extra travel fee, we accepted baggage fees and resort fees with a slight grumble and never fought back. Now if the process involves having to travel to a few select cities to drop off my passport and a bunch of personal information, I could see that giving people second thoughts, but most likely it will involve a visit to a website and a small fee like I had to do with my trip to Cuba last year. That process was so easy that it can't be described as nothing but a money grab.

[Nonesuch]

Originally Posted by LeePNE

AKA VISA Waiver. Which is waiving the right to have to obtain a VISA. This is what USA should need to enter Europe.

Why? Participants in the Schengen Borders Agreement chose to allow visa-free travel for US Citizens for tourist and business travel under certain circumstances. That is their choice.

America's VWP is more restrictive, requires applying for ESTA in advance and paying a small fee -- if Schengen nations put in similar requirements for American visitors to the EU, they will see a further drop in tourism from the USA.

Originally Posted by LeePNE

Of course you do, but what makes a US passport better than any other?

US Citizens traveling overseas are highly unlikely to be rejected at immigration, nor to overstay a tourist visa. Some of the most common reasons the USA rejects Polish applicants are not having a stable job or staying too long on a past visa -- two factors which rarely apply to US citizens who visit the EU.

America's Visa Waiver Program allows visa-free tourism from most of the Schengen area, however due to the high rejection rate of visa applicants holders of a passport from Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania do not qualify for the VWP.

So the real question is, why do these 5 nations have an unacceptably high rejection rate? Should we look closer at the rest of the EU and remove additional nations from the VWP?

[GymFanatic]

Originally Posted by Nonesuch

Let them whine about it if they like. In the end, they need our tourist dollars, and if they implement anything more onerous than Australia's "instant visa" at the airport, they may regret it as tourists find other easier destinations to visit.

People like to harp on how 64% of Americans don't have a valid passport, and only about 5% travel outside North America in any given year, but ignore how time consuming and expensive it is to fly from the USA to any other continent. Few people can take a solid week or longer off work to travel internationally. I'm lucky if I can make one such overseas trip a year.


Bottom line, if EU makes entry more difficult, I'm spending my effort (and money) on travel somewhere else, a nation that wants my business.

I've flown to New York (6 hours), spent 7 days there and then took a 5-hour flight back. Perfectly within a reasonable time frame.

There are certainly areas of America that are close enough to Europe where workers would be able to go and visit for a week/two without taking excessive time periods off. To say otherwise, is wrong.

[LeePNE]

Originally Posted by Nonesuch

Why? Participants in the Schengen Borders Agreement chose to allow visa-free travel for US Citizens for tourist and business travel under certain circumstances. That is their choice.

Correct! That is the current choice. The whole point of this thread about "feeling depressed" about the possibility of having to obtain a VISA or VISA waiver to enter Europe.


My point is this, although it seems we have gone slightly off track here:

If Europe or individual European countries opt for having a VISA or VISA waiver to enter the country, it shouldn't be a problem. It certainly shouldn't be a god given right, which if you read back on the earlier posts on this thread you will see that some US Citizens seem to think thats the case.


If the VISA or VISA waiver comes into play and you decide you're no longer going to visit that country because you have to apply for waiver then shame on you, because that's what most of the world has to do to enter this country.

[botticelli]

Depressed, outrage, it is more about ：How dare you small EU! We are the rich, powerful, widely loved Americans, how can we be humiliated to apply for visas! Our USD is so powerful that it will be stupid for you not to welcome us under no conditions!