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Old 12-13-2018, 02:16 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,286 posts, read 51,837,829 times
Reputation: 23660

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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
Also, why on earth does someone who can't be away from their puppy for 3 hours get their way, yet the person that is allergic to them has to suffer in a confined space?
The original laws were written to protect SERVICE animals, since one's allergies don't supersede a person's legitimate need for a service animal... because if you were comparing a blind person needing guidance from their dog, to someone who gets the sniffles around fur, obviously the former is more important to accommodate. They've just been applied to every "support" animal now, which makes it seem less fair.

Even if we're talking about (real) ESAs, it's much easier to control an allergy than anxiety attacks from PTSD. And I say that as someone with allergies, including cats and dogs to some degree; but if you needed your pet to control panic attacks, I'd take a Benadryl and shut up. Severe/life-threatening allergies to cat or dog dander are pretty rare, so the majority of allergic folks are just getting minor sinus reactions. That's why the ADA doesn't include allergies as a protected condition, but does include things like blindness and mental illness.
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Old 12-13-2018, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Surfside Beach, SC
2,385 posts, read 3,660,666 times
Reputation: 4980
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCNYC View Post
Truly Curious what a 4lb dog can do to "support" a person?

And I would assume a dog just can't sit in a seat like a human
Size doesn't matter, but age does. A young puppy would not be mature enough to be trained to perform a legitimate service, but a small dog is often used as a service animal. My friend is a head and neck oncology surgeon who has a form of cancer that causes him to have "episodes" where he will fall down. His dog was a small Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, who was somehow able to detect ahead of time, when he was going to have an "episode" and fall down. He took his service dog into surgery with him - all dressed in little scrubs and everything! - and the dog knew when he was going to have an "episode" and would lick his leg to alert him. All of the staff and patients were fully aware of this animal and supportive of his presence in the operating room. When the dog would lick his leg, he knew that he had to take a break from surgery and sit down before he fell down.

This man is a brilliant surgeon, who operates on people who basically have no other hope and he does it all pro bono. I wrote about this in the past tense, because unfortunately, this precious little dog has died and without him, my friend is unable to perform surgery any longer. They never did know how this dog knew to lick his leg prior to an "episode" so were unable to teach this to another dog. They are still hoping and trying to do so. And I call them "episodes" because they aren't really seizures and I don't know what other word to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
The emotional support animal movement, even if it was legitimate at one point, is now total bs. I have many friends who have registered their animals as emotional support animals. It's a joke.

Also, why on earth does someone who can't be away from their puppy for 3 hours get their way, yet the person that is allergic to them has to suffer in a confined space?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hertfordshire View Post
No they haven't. There is no registering of animals as ESAs.
You didn't bold the most important part of his post, which was, "It's a joke." Yes, you CAN register an animal as an ESA, but it is a joke. The registration has no meaning and no legal standing, but that doesn't mean that people don't do it. They do. They pay money to do it and get a piece of paper or a certificate for it, but it holds no water.

Here's one of many places that scam people to "register" their ESAs:

https://www.esaregistration.org

A true, legitimate service animal does not need to be registered. The ones that are "registered" are all fakes.
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:16 PM
 
2,323 posts, read 1,549,974 times
Reputation: 2311
I remember the story when a dog got I'll and #2'd all over the place and they still boarded the nasty plane and flew to FL. I'm all for proper license just to cut down the number pets in the cabin (I wish there were no pets in the cabin but whatever).
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:40 PM
 
1,584 posts, read 975,921 times
Reputation: 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
The original laws were written to protect SERVICE animals, since one's allergies don't supersede a person's legitimate need for a service animal... because if you were comparing a blind person needing guidance from their dog, to someone who gets the sniffles around fur, obviously the former is more important to accommodate. They've just been applied to every "support" animal now, which makes it seem less fair.

Even if we're talking about (real) ESAs, it's much easier to control an allergy than anxiety attacks from PTSD. And I say that as someone with allergies, including cats and dogs to some degree; but if you needed your pet to control panic attacks, I'd take a Benadryl and shut up. Severe/life-threatening allergies to cat or dog dander are pretty rare, so the majority of allergic folks are just getting minor sinus reactions. That's why the ADA doesn't include allergies as a protected condition, but does include things like blindness and mental illness.
Severe, life-threatening allergies to dog or cat hair/dander does indeed exist and should not be pooh-poohed. Such folks can and do develop serious asthma attacks where their lungs gradually constrict, spasm, and fill with fluid. If the person is exposed long enough (and serious issues can occur within an hour’s time in some cases) the person can die. Removal of the allergen and something like a shot of epinephrine or inhaled medication is often necessary. We’re not talking runny noses and Benadryl here.

Often, having the person seated a good distance away from the animal will buy the allergic person enough time for the duration of a flight. Any reasonable airline should be able to make such accommodation.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:58 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,661 posts, read 57,789,143 times
Reputation: 46126
Hallelujah,

as a pet owner for last 50+ yrs (working farm dogs) I'm all for NO pets in the cabin (at home or in the air). I would never subject a pet (?) to the dangers / hassle / stress of flying coach. (and putting 200+ human beings at risk) VERY selfish of the pet (?) OWNER

Since I frequent the co-dependent haven of PDX. (More 'Emotional Support' animals (?) per capita than thought possible) I have gotten flea bites on airplanes. The 'lap' dog in the seat behind you is slobbering and panting < 6" from your head.

There are sometimes 8+ non trained, non professional, non-functional emotional support creatures per flight.
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Old 12-14-2018, 03:52 AM
 
13,395 posts, read 13,459,503 times
Reputation: 35711
Quote:
Originally Posted by steiconi View Post
My brother and his wife took their (legitimate) ESA, a 4-lb adult dog, on a Delta flight recently. They didn't try to take him on for free; they bought him his own seat, told the airline it was for a dog, and brought a pad to protect the seat. Even so, the flight attendant would not let the dog sit on the covered seat, but insisted he be caged or on their lap. The airline refunded the seat when my brother complained.
Seats should be for people. Maybe they could drive next time.
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Old 12-14-2018, 05:31 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
50,179 posts, read 63,636,357 times
Reputation: 92930
My late sister had a companion Yorkie who flew with her. The dog was surely a comfort to her and encouraged her mobility, but the flying part of it was more about her husband trying to save a few bucks on a boarding kennel.
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Old 12-14-2018, 06:57 AM
 
16,391 posts, read 12,409,088 times
Reputation: 59506
I just feel like it's important to differentiate, because not everyone knows the difference. This isn't directed at anyone in particular in this thread. Just general information for those who may not know ...

Emotional Support Animals (ESAs) aren't necessarily trained, outside of general obedience and temprament.

Service Animals are trained to perform a specific task, such as alerting to a health emergency (impending seizure, low blood sugar, etc.), retrieving items, providing counter balance, or guiding the blind.

By law, the only two questions that can be asked are 1) Is that a service animal? and 2) What specific task has it been trained to do? True service animals who are trained to perform a task can legally go anywhere its owner can go (with the possible exception of sterile environments). But if someone answers that second question with something like "he helps keep me calm," they can be refused since it's not a specific task (such as "he alerts to an oncoming panic attack" or "he provides deep pressure therapy during a panic attack") SAs are protected by ADA ... ESAs are not.

A completely different category (that is sometimes incorrectly used interchangeably) is Therapy Animals. They do not provide a service to their owner, but to others. An example of Therapy Animals are the dogs who provide emotional support to survivors of mass shootings, go into nursing homes and hospitals, or often support children who have to take part in proceedings in family court.
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Old 12-14-2018, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,828,187 times
Reputation: 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by hertfordshire View Post
The problem is who (as in what agency) handles overseeing the registering/licensing of service animals and how do we pay for such a program?
To the best of my knowledge, there is no such agency. Nor should there be.
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Old 12-14-2018, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,828,187 times
Reputation: 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by hertfordshire View Post
By law, the only two questions that can be asked are...
That law should be changed. There should be no restriction on questioning. If I lie and say my dog is trained to detect my blood sugar levels, the law should be changed to allow further questioning and requirements to produce legitimate documents, etc.

Then, of course, there are animals that perform a different form of service. They are not pets. Avalanche dogs, for example, and increasingly avalanche cats. These service animals go through extensive, time consuming, and expensive training programs.






and


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