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My husband just returned from Chicago. His flight was delayed over 7 hours and consequently he arrived 1 day later - needlesstosay, it was another adventure. As he was waiting for his flight, another flight was preparing to depart ... the crew showed up .... the pilot showed up ... but where was the co-pilot? No co-pilot. Time passed. An annoucement was made that the flight would be delayed as one of the crew members had not shown up. Apoligies were made. Then an announcement was made "are there any private pilots in the waiting area that are going to be on this flight?" My husband and everyone in the waiting area looked at each other in wonderment. The announcement was made again and again. The co-pilot didn't show up and they needed a co-pilot for this flight (obviosuly with the appropriate credtentials). Evenutally someone did show up from the airlines and the flight departed two and one half hours later.
Meanwhile my husband was waiting for his plane. The plane shows up after being delayed by weather and traffic. They clean it and just before it is ready to board, the captain makes an announcement they they would not be able to take off because they have a radar glitch. The flight is further delayed. The plane is taken to the hanger to repair which would take about one hour. 45 minutes pass and passengers are informed that an arriving plane that was being parked for the night, had a compatible radar system and had the part for the delayed flight. This was to take another 45 - 60 min max. One hour later passengers were informed the flight would be delayed another hour. Midnight came and went and finally at 1:00 am the plane was ready to be boarded. It left 7 1/2 hours later.
The good news, everyone was accommodated, the plane was made safe for the passengers, and it was just another adventure. Everyone had a great time joking and getting to know one another.
They really do need a passengers "bill of rights". Its ridiculous you pay all that money to get poor service. I've often wondered what they do for these poor people that our on vacation, and have lost 1 or more days.
I'm sure the "are there any private pilots" announcement was a joke. There's absolutely no way that it could have been serious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJHinDE
They really do need a passengers "bill of rights". Its ridiculous you pay all that money to get poor service. I've often wondered what they do for these poor people that our on vacation, and have lost 1 or more days.
By all that money, you mean paying among historically low prices, right? And what's poor service? a First Officer that was missing for any number of reasons, many of which may not have been his fault, like a late connecting flight? Would it have been "better" service to dispatch the flight with an inoperative radar (even putting aside the minimum equipment list)?
You act is if a pax bill of rights will get the flights off on time. The bill will mainly entitle the pax to essential services on long delays when IN the airplane out sitting on the ramp, which sitting in the terminal, everyone was plenty close to.
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Besides the pilot joke, some things just aren't adding up. The plane taken to the hangar most likely had an XMTR problem. That's the radar transmitter receiver. For the new plane coming in to be compatible, they would have to be the same kind of plane. We rob parts from plane to plane, but we don't take parts from inservice planes sitting on the gate, to fix planes in the hangar. We would just do a quick turn around on the plane that came in. The box swap is only 5 minutes, but the ops checks take longer, and the CAT status has to be reinstated. It's much quicker to just clean and fuel the plane on the gate.
Airlines are the only private companies that have a hotline direct to the Government for complaints. My flight was 15 minutes late. My luggage got delayed. I don't like the way my sky hag looked at me. When was the last time you called the Government because McDonalds burnt your French fries, or forgot to put a toy in your happy meal?
We could haul people halfway around the world with caviar and spa service for $49.95, and somebody would still complain. If we manage to get them there without turning them into a smoldering pile of goo, there's nothing to complain about.
I know that jhlcomp is just relating a story, and not really complaining. This was for the millions of other people out there that think we are some kind of Government service that gets paid no matter what happens. Jimmy Carter screwed up bad when he deregulated the airlines. We should have total regulation, or no regulation at all. The partial regulation we have right now, has done nothing but destroy the industry.
We should have total regulation, or no regulation at all. The partial regulation we have right now, has done nothing but destroy the industry.
Ain't that the truth. What a mess it has become, with no end in sight to the madness under the current system. We need to go back to being regulated completely. Left to their own devices, airlines only run themselves into the ground due to fierce competition and slim to non existent profit margins. Pennies are pinched to the point that passengers suffer as amenities are shed in all departments: staffing, maintenance, cust. service, etc, and employees suffer due to more work at lower pay in worsening conditions. Passenger airlines in the current semi-regulated state just cannot seem to find a working business model. But then there's the cargo airlines, UPS/Fedex, and the fractional passenger flying companies, ie Netjets, etc. They have it down cold. They are stable, deliver a great and trusted product, treat the employees well, makes loads of money despite economic downturns, but do so by charging a premium with huge profit margins. But it works. This 'greyhound bus of the skies' syndrome that passenger airlines have developed makes the passenger airline sector a total disaster.
Quote:
By all that money, you mean paying among historically low prices, right? And what's poor service? a First Officer that was missing for any number of reasons, many of which may not have been his fault, like a late connecting flight? Would it have been "better" service to dispatch the flight with an inoperative radar (even putting aside the minimum equipment list)?
You act is if a pax bill of rights will get the flights off on time. The bill will mainly entitle the pax to essential services on long delays when IN the airplane out sitting on the ramp, which sitting in the terminal, everyone was plenty close to.
Yeah, the Pax bill of rights is a joke. It would only make a bad situation much worse. I don't think people realize that once you go back to the gate, you lose your departure slot. Then your flight is delayed all the further. So, you get to pick your poison - get a number and wait in line for hours, or wait in line for a couple hours, hit the time limit for the 'bill of rights', taxi back to the gate, lose your time slot, then start all over. Then you have to worry about crews timing out, leading to more cancelled flights, plus fuel issues, especially on longer flights, leading to even more delays. It could really snowball the problem. Some flights would never get off the ground! They system is broke, no doubt, but this is not the fix. There are too many flights trying to cram into too few runways. Until they either cut back the number of flights or add huge amounts of new pavement, the problem won't go away.
Less regulation is the way to go. If these airlines can not make it on their own they should not exist. There is too much service and too many frequencys on many city pairs, that is why there are so many congestion issues. Let the weaker airlines die and and let the strong, fit airlines survive. Less airlines providing better service at higher fares is where the industry is heading. This will lead to a better industry for everyone. The airlines can charge the fares that cover the cost of the operation, the congestion will ease with less flights and the service will improve with the system not stretched to the limits. The natural market forces should be allowed to craft a fit industry.
Involving the government will only complicate matters. The government can not manage or regulate something as complicated as an airline. 11th hour made many cogent points about the industry that the public or corrupt officials can not understand.
Less regulation is the way to go. If these airlines can not make it on their own they should not exist. There is too much service and too many frequencys on many city pairs, that is why there are so many congestion issues. Let the weaker airlines die and and let the strong, fit airlines survive. Less airlines providing better service at higher fares is where the industry is heading. This will lead to a better industry for everyone. The airlines can charge the fares that cover the cost of the operation, the congestion will ease with less flights and the service will improve with the system not stretched to the limits. The natural market forces should be allowed to craft a fit industry.
I agree with this for the most part; you present a strong argument for 100% deregulating it as well. All I know for certain is that it has to be one or the other, not in the middle as it is now, as South Range pointed out.
Er.. back on topic I'm sorry it was so difficult for you and your husband jhlcomp. It is certainly a trying experience to go through, and I'm glad it all worked out!
My husband just returned from Chicago. His flight was delayed over 7 hours and consequently he arrived 1 day later - needlesstosay, it was another adventure. As he was waiting for his flight, another flight was preparing to depart ... the crew showed up .... the pilot showed up ... but where was the co-pilot? No co-pilot. Time passed. An annoucement was made that the flight would be delayed as one of the crew members had not shown up. Apoligies were made. Then an announcement was made "are there any private pilots in the waiting area that are going to be on this flight?" My husband and everyone in the waiting area looked at each other in wonderment. The announcement was made again and again. The co-pilot didn't show up and they needed a co-pilot for this flight (obviosuly with the appropriate credtentials). Evenutally someone did show up from the airlines and the flight departed two and one half hours later.
Meanwhile my husband was waiting for his plane. The plane shows up after being delayed by weather and traffic. They clean it and just before it is ready to board, the captain makes an announcement they they would not be able to take off because they have a radar glitch. The flight is further delayed. The plane is taken to the hanger to repair which would take about one hour. 45 minutes pass and passengers are informed that an arriving plane that was being parked for the night, had a compatible radar system and had the part for the delayed flight. This was to take another 45 - 60 min max. One hour later passengers were informed the flight would be delayed another hour. Midnight came and went and finally at 1:00 am the plane was ready to be boarded. It left 7 1/2 hours later.
The good news, everyone was accommodated, the plane was made safe for the passengers, and it was just another adventure. Everyone had a great time joking and getting to know one another.
Tell me, out of curiosity....was this a U S Air flight???
I'm sure the "are there any private pilots" announcement was a joke. There's absolutely no way that it could have been serious.
By all that money, you mean paying among historically low prices, right? And what's poor service? a First Officer that was missing for any number of reasons, many of which may not have been his fault, like a late connecting flight? Would it have been "better" service to dispatch the flight with an inoperative radar (even putting aside the minimum equipment list)?
You act is if a pax bill of rights will get the flights off on time. The bill will mainly entitle the pax to essential services on long delays when IN the airplane out sitting on the ramp, which sitting in the terminal, everyone was plenty close to.
It was absolutely true - this was no hoax and nothing funny which is why everyone looked at each other in absolute disbelief.
Besides the pilot joke, some things just aren't adding up. The plane taken to the hangar most likely had an XMTR problem. That's the radar transmitter receiver. For the new plane coming in to be compatible, they would have to be the same kind of plane. We rob parts from plane to plane, but we don't take parts from inservice planes sitting on the gate, to fix planes in the hangar. We would just do a quick turn around on the plane that came in. The box swap is only 5 minutes, but the ops checks take longer, and the CAT status has to be reinstated. It's much quicker to just clean and fuel the plane on the gate.
Airlines are the only private companies that have a hotline direct to the Government for complaints. My flight was 15 minutes late. My luggage got delayed. I don't like the way my sky hag looked at me. When was the last time you called the Government because McDonalds burnt your French fries, or forgot to put a toy in your happy meal?
We could haul people halfway around the world with caviar and spa service for $49.95, and somebody would still complain. If we manage to get them there without turning them into a smoldering pile of goo, there's nothing to complain about.
I know that jhlcomp is just relating a story, and not really complaining. This was for the millions of other people out there that think we are some kind of Government service that gets paid no matter what happens. Jimmy Carter screwed up bad when he deregulated the airlines. We should have total regulation, or no regulation at all. The partial regulation we have right now, has done nothing but destroy the industry.
Of course the plane was compatible. And again, this is a true story - my husband experienced this - it is not hoax and I am not making it up.
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less regulation please
