Legal marijuana what do you think about it? (Seattle, Clinton: law school, live)

[M3 Mitch]

Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident

I want to first say I support Medical MJ. My experience is those who use MJ for medical reasons aren't usually driving. Secondly, I'm interested in no responses to my post and link. CO, possibly OR and other locations have argued pot can't be measured so easily.

I understand the concept of residual drug. It's the same reason arsenic or certain other drugs can be detected long after the last dose.

Third, I did read there aren't pot shops in the Tri. Fair enough, but what happens when residents travel to Portland, Seattle or other areas where shops exist? Isn't a driver only as safe as the worst driver on the road?

Are drivers ever being ticketed for DUI of MJ?

CO has very mixed opinions of whether there should be a recall initiative. CO had ~ 10% less deaths associated with pot than WA state. Any thoughts of why? I have a couple of ideas, but prefer to hear yours.

MSR

I don't know that any real research has been done on how THC affects one's ability to drive. (If anyone knows of real research, please post it up, I'd like to read it) Back in the day, I saw a lot of pot smoked by other kids behind the wheel. They didn't wreck, they didn't drive crazy. I have seen much worse results with alcohol.

Recently there has been in the news reports of an increase in fatal crashes involving driving under the influence of drugs other than alcohol. I think some people have conflated that to be due to THC. Listening this morning, at least in the study being discussed, not the case. The "intoxicated" crashes involve all drugs other than alcohol, pills mostly. I think opiates do increase one's reaction time a lot.

Although even concerning alcohol, if you think all people are affected equally by drinking the same dose of alcohol, I guess you have never been to Russia!

[MarciaMarshaMarcia]

I smell it now wherever I go. The marijuana that is available now, even the recreational stuff, is SO MUCH more potent that the skunk weed of the 70's...so it would be more probable now to be working/driving, or whatever, in a much more impaired state, which is a troublesome thought, IMO.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by M3 Mitch

I don't know that any real research has been done on how THC affects one's ability to drive. (If anyone knows of real research, please post it up, I'd like to read it) Back in the day, I saw a lot of pot smoked by other kids behind the wheel. They didn't wreck, they didn't drive crazy. I have seen much worse results with alcohol.

Recently there has been in the news reports of an increase in fatal crashes involving driving under the influence of drugs other than alcohol. I think some people have conflated that to be due to THC. Listening this morning, at least in the study being discussed, not the case. The "intoxicated" crashes involve all drugs other than alcohol, pills mostly. I think opiates do increase one's reaction time a lot.

Although even concerning alcohol, if you think all people are affected equally by drinking the same dose of alcohol, I guess you have never been to Russia!

Mitch,

I appreciate your response. I, too, would love to read any research about THC. I second your request for anyone finding scientific studies to please post them.

I was hoping WA had something newer, given the comments about current wrecks/accidents. I know the canned answers of why not.

Thanks!

MSR

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by MarciaMarshaMarcia

I smell it now wherever I go. The marijuana that is available now, even the recreational stuff, is SO MUCH more potent that the skunk weed of the 70's...so it would be more probable now to be working/driving, or whatever, in a much more impaired state, which is a troublesome thought, IMO.

Is the concentration regulated somehow in WA or OR?

I appreciate your name, MarciaMarshaMarcia!

MSR

[Mtn. States Resident]

Mitch, You might find this story interesting. It's very sad, but from a scientific viewpoint, there might be baseline numbers here of what CO considers DUI with THC. Some lab or labs have to have this info they aren't publishing. Otherwise, how would CO know an "edible" contained ~ 1 Ng/ml?

Other court cases have been tossed in CO. I just heard about this today. I suspect a judge will let it go through. If not, this is still the first step as a Colorado Springs mom may file suit given "lack of labeling and how to use the right amount," for her deceased son who jumped from a second story window. Once the pathway to the court starts, someone will eventually make it in.

In some ways this is the right test cast, IMO. How could CO put a time frame on the THC the dad had in him? Did he show psychotic symptoms previously?

I realize this is a bit off from driving on the roads in WA state, but I've never seen measurements of THC so clearly discussed previously. And yes, when I heard about this case, the lack of literature was a problem cited.

Lawsuit against marijuana company over deadly Denver shooting could be first of its kind – The Denver Post

MSR

[M3 Mitch]

Interesting. I never saw any impulse towards violent behavior among the many stoned people I observed in high school and college - unless you consider clumsily tearing open a pack of Oreos and spilling half of them on the floor to be a form of "violence". Looking at the guy in the article, I think he had a lot more going on beyond THC. He looks nuts in the photo.

I think blood THC levels for DUI equivalent have been pulled out of a hat, doubt there has been any real science done to try to determine how various levels affect driving skill.

[NCN]

Originally Posted by fstwrtr

Hey tricities,
Im curious as to what everybody ( Specifically people in the tricities ) thinks about the legalization of pot?..

Are you for it because you enjoy adding it to your social life legally?
or are you for it for the taxes?

Are you against it because of the public has been told about it?
or are you against it because of the negative impact that it might have on the public?

thanks for your opinions!!

I'm from NC and am wondering why it is all right for states to choose to have marijuana which cannot be legal and the president sues our government for making the laws our people want which are legal. Marijuana should be abolished. We don't elect presidents to have them rule by personal opinion. There are laws and every law should be enforced.

[j_k_k]

Originally Posted by NCN

I'm from NC and am wondering why it is all right for states to choose to have marijuana which cannot be legal and the president sues our government for making the laws our people want which are legal. Marijuana should be abolished. We don't elect presidents to have them rule by personal opinion. There are laws and every law should be enforced.

It's called "states' rights." I think that's a term well understood in North Carolina. And in a turn of phrase you may find familiar, those not in those states might well mind their own business.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by M3 Mitch

Interesting. I never saw any impulse towards violent behavior among the many stoned people I observed in high school and college - unless you consider clumsily tearing open a pack of Oreos and spilling half of them on the floor to be a form of "violence". Looking at the guy in the article, I think he had a lot more going on beyond THC. He looks nuts in the photo.

I think blood THC levels for DUI equivalent have been pulled out of a hat, doubt there has been any real science done to try to determine how various levels affect driving skill.

I agree the guy looks "unwell" from the photo, but that is a major part of his defense. His most recent psych evaluation hasn't been reported yet. His attorneys plan on pleading that despite his rather low THC level (3.25 Ng/ml, IIRC) and CO is calling 5Ng/ml DUI, plus his tox screen was clean for everything else from prescription drugs to ETOH. So his lawyers are planning on blaming the unlabeled dose of THC in the "edibiles" for causing a psychotic break.

The story in Colorado Springs with the teen jumping two stories to his death is very similar implying a psychotic break. The problem is, unless one has been evaluated by a mental health clinician, who would know what people are at risk for a psychotic break? I read something about that actually and will try to find it again. Meanwhile there is an interesting Pubmed article comparing CO and WA directly.

I was thinking about my post after I posted it last night. I wondered if I should start a different thread as I never thought I'd be posting about THC and murder in this one. I don't want accused of high jacking this one. The problem is, as you know, there is little literature available about levels of THC. I post it when I see it.

My second thought last night was I'm certain those large multi-million $ MJ "businesses" in CO have their own internal labs or a regional one that many businesses support. Otherwise, how would they know each "edible" could not contain more than 1 mg. / serving? What I suspect is this and other lawsuits have attorneys getting subpoenas for the testing results for suppliers. Then they will have one to three independent, reputable reference labs test on their own for direct testimony in court. If that happens, doses and time of peak effect will be widely shared so others can decide what to do.

Per chance you didn't catch it, compared to your example above about the Oreos, IDK if that person had an edible or inhalant. It appears, at least to this point, the edibiles are what are making people psychotic in CO. That isn't to say the inhalants have caused no harm. But not the psychosis at least three people have experienced to date with edibles. The third was a college student who jumped from his hotel balcony in Denver. None of the three had psychiatric symptoms, per personal family and friend reports, prior to the edibles. It appears the peak time is much slower from the inhalant, so some wonder if additional edibles were consumed.

It will be a tragedy worse than it already is if the dad above isn't being medicated to treat his psychotic-looking symptoms.

MSR

[M3 Mitch]

MSR, back in the days I was around it, I'm talking just smoke. A few heavy-duty hippies made pot brownies, but that was relatively rare.

I guess it's possible that edibles cause a different reaction. If this guy is or was on some sort of meds for his mental issues - what can I say, people on such meds should consider carefully if they want to add some recreational pharmaceuticals to the mix.

I'm just reporting back from the 70's, mostly, about what I saw and experienced there.

Of course the lawyer is going to try to argue "the pot made him do it", it's what he's paid to do. Sort of like the "Twinkie Defense".