How fast do you drive on the 240? (Richland, Pasco: land, directions)

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

Yes, but there are certainly differences among local police, and the State Patrol, (or Police, as in OR and ID).

Here in mid-2016, Idaho and Washington seem to be out there, but Oregon is still pretty rare. Let's hope this lack of patrol in OR doesn't create more injuries or deaths.

I read in a different forum that OP'S speed limit is officially 70 mph. Is that correct?

pnwguy2, I'll get back to you a different day about your dad and the maps. Truly fascinating.

MSR

[pnwguy2]

Yes, OR raised their speed limit to 70 earlier this year. However, it is only in effect on I-84, I-5 is still 65. The State highways have been increased from 55 to 60 or 65 in some areas.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

Thanks...I only know history when I enjoy the subject matter. I have always been a map geek, probably came from my Dad who was a mapmaker in World War II.

Spaghetti Bowls, if I read your post correctly, this term is indeed used in a number of cities. Beyond Salt Lake City, I can remember the term being used in Atlanta, Houston, Las Vegas, even Reno. I'm sure there are many others.

Cities with military support...Hmm, to bring this back to Tri-Cities, it is not commonly known that the main reason I-182 from the Columbia River bridge to just west of US 395 has three lanes in each direction was to accommodate wide trucks used for work at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation.

From wikipedia: "I-182 is defined by the Washington State Legislature as SR 182, part of the Revised Code of Washington as §47.17.020.[18] As a component of the Interstate Highway System,[2][3] the highway is listed as part of the National Highway System for its entire length,[19] classifying it as important to the national economy, defense, and mobility.[20] The Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) maintains the freeway and designates the corridor as a Highway of Statewide Significance,[21] which includes highways that connect major communities in the state of Washington."

"Which Interstate is your most favorite to speed on?"...well, despite my OP here, I actually am not a big speeder. I do like keeping up with traffic, and am a huge believer in staying out of the left lane except to pass, and do push the limit a bit, but never recklessly, especially after witnessing a couple of Interstate accidents, one in Idaho near Jerome where a driver tried to exit from the left lane (thanks for reminding me of that), and flipped several times right in front of me. The other one was just a couple of weeks ago over on the westside when two drivers, apparently racing, passed me going an estimated 95-100 mph, causing an accident just ahead of me. Fortunately, these idiots didn't cause any major injuries in this one.

"Patrolled heavily?" I can't offer specific areas really, but it is commonly known that Oregon has some financial issues and doesn't patrol as often as Washington and Idaho do. Washington tends to use "enhanced" patrols, where you will see several patrols in a limited stretch of highway, and the next day you see none. Idaho is somewhat hit or miss, but as mentioned, more prolific than Oregon, IMO.

Ppnwguy2,

Your dad was a mapmaker. How cool. Did he have the tools he used in the military when you were young so you could try your luck with maps? Or was everything, except your dad's knowledge and skills, left behind? Was that the Army? I would think so but it is better to ask. He must have had fascinating stories.

I have a theory about the roads, infrastructure and other things. Hanford makes total sense to me and my theory. Any idea when the Wiki part you posted actually happened? If that wasn't clear I wonder when the three lane highways began. I can't find the date above.

MSR

[pnwguy2]

Yes, US Army. Not much hands-on experience, but his experience tilted me to an interest in maps. I don't remember fascinating stories, but young kids generally don't.

My only point about I-182 from 82 to US 12 was that it was built to conform to large machinery moving in and out to the airport. There were certainly 3+ lanes built in the early days of the Interstate system, especially in the major metros of the time...Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, New York.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

Yes, US Army. Not much hands-on experience, but his experience tilted me to an interest in maps. I don't remember fascinating stories, but young kids generally don't.

My only point about I-182 from 82 to US 12 was that it was built to conform to large machinery moving in and out to the airport. There were certainly 3+ lanes built in the early days of the Interstate system, especially in the major metros of the time...Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, New York.

Ah, kids do remember some stories Maybe it depends on your definition of "young". I feel ancient after this week. I keep wondering if we're going to have a repeat of the 60s.

Your point about the three lanes to the airport is pristine clear for me. It all goes back to how you wrote an earlier comment when I was learning more about I-84. I really did think about how come anyone in their right (or left) mind would have an Interstate turn essentially east in Ogden, UT to end up at Erda, UT? Then I thought about Hill AFB and it's location to that section of I-84. That all goes back to my comment about having to have the infrastructure for growth and how some areas had some of that infrastructure decades before others. It appears to me those areas where manufacturing of key military equipment occurred, or strategic military bases were built, got a head start with certain infrastructure.

Plus in the Tri, not only is there Hanford/PNNL and the airport, but access to water to move cargo. Is that still correct? Or are the rivers in the Tri used more for recreational purposes vs. economic? It's about time for me to dig out the NuScale/Fluor thread as I have a question. But I know one thing PNNL wrote was they could access vessels by water.

What do you think about my idea about Hill AFB and how come I-84 goes to the middle of nowhere in Erda, allowing easy access to Hill probably on the larger roads, by utilizing that route prior to SLC proper? If you think I have a valid point, I wonder how many of the military bases had Interstates make unusual exits or go to destinations few would pursue? That would have been easier to do in the west, than the east, IMO.

Thanks,

MSR

[j_k_k]

There is commercial traffic on the Columbia up to Burbank, and perhaps to a limited degree north of that on the Snake and Columbia. I am not sure how many vessels bring anything to PNNL by water, though. I never heard of that occurring. Beyond the confluence, I think most river usage is recreational on both. Go down there on a nice spring, summer, or fall day and the river is alive with boats. There is a cool jetboat tour that runs all the way up to the White Bluffs. If boating up that way, though, newcomers should bear in mind that Hanford is the west bank of the river. I'm told it's fine to get out as long as you stay on the sandbar, but that if you go above that, it won't take long for the Hanford Patrol (a paramilitary police unit) to pay a visit.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by j_k_k

There is commercial traffic on the Columbia up to Burbank, and perhaps to a limited degree north of that on the Snake and Columbia. I am not sure how many vessels bring anything to PNNL by water, though. I never heard of that occurring. Beyond the confluence, I think most river usage is recreational on both. Go down there on a nice spring, summer, or fall day and the river is alive with boats. There is a cool jetboat tour that runs all the way up to the White Bluffs. If boating up that way, though, newcomers should bear in mind that Hanford is the west bank of the river. I'm told it's fine to get out as long as you stay on the sandbar, but that if you go above that, it won't take long for the Hanford Patrol (a paramilitary police unit) to pay a visit.

Hi j.k.k., PNNL probably doesn't put much info out about this. I'll try to find the exact article, because I have a question about what PNNL might start building. And the statement written may have been a reference to the physical distance between PNNL and Navy bases on the west coast. The point being is WA state is a great location for some things as transportation between PNNL and Navy facilities would be closer than many places. I'll pull up the NuScale thread as that is where the discussion belongs.

I'd think with two rivers they would both see a lot of recreational sports on the water.

Honestly, I couldn't find anything current about what happens on the rivers. Maybe it's time for someone to start a thread

MSR

[pnwguy2]

In general, the history of the Interstate Highway System was built with national security in mind, and obviously increased public movement (either good or bad for cities, no proof as to which), but when Eisenhower presented, or perhaps purported the system in the 50's, it was a response to being able to help the military and the public during the cold war. Today, the results have yielded massive sprawl, which might have occurred even without the system, but unlikely.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

In general, the history of the Interstate Highway System was built with national security in mind, and obviously increased public movement (either good or bad for cities, no proof as to which), but when Eisenhower presented, or perhaps purported the system in the 50's, it was a response to being able to help the military and the public during the cold war. Today, the results have yielded massive sprawl, which might have occurred even without the system, but unlikely.

pnwguy2,

That makes a lot of sense to me. I honestly don't know if anyone could have predicted the urban sprawl.

It's often said from wars medical care for civilians improves significantly. Not in all areas, but some. Examples would be development of certain antibiotics, evacuating injured drivers & passengers and flying them in helicopters to Trauma Centers. To some degree the Trauma Center concept came from wars and how patients were triaged. Other examples include different surgical approaches, new instruments development and blood products or extenders and more.

So here is my question. Did the improvement of military vehicles, be it jeeps or other, change the vehicles and possibly the recreational vehicles used today? There are always changes, but many are cosmetic. Any idea what the speed limit was on those first roads? I wonder if vehicle speed increased partly due to observations of some in various military conflicts...

I look forward to your thoughts.

MSR

[Mtn. States Resident]

Very weird. A series about the Interstate System featured in a regional publication. The journalist mentions almost every question I've asked. I won't go through them all here except two points.

The first I kind of asked earlier but this is still different. The Interstate system, which is 60 yrs., absolutely helped some areas thrive. Maybe the start of Urban Sprawl in cities smaller than the very largest ones. Whether or not that was due to engineers and others following the designs for the largest cities for smaller cities, IDK. Any thoughts? Other areas lost population and businesses given that traffic could bypass driving through with Interstates.

Secondly, this goes to my military question. As pnwguy2 wrote earlier about the Interstates being built for both traffic movement and U.S. defense in mind, there are indeed some things very different about the interstates than other roads. An example is how bridges were built to be blown up if there was a land invasion. I wonder if bridges are still built the same or if not when that changed?

It's always interesting to me when a recent subject here is discussed in length soon after in a publication.

MSR