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Old 12-31-2013, 04:45 PM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,286,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
You are citing lack of action on the Ramsey family's part in order to incriminate them.

That is a rather weak argument.
It isn't evidence that could be used in a criminal court. However, on a practical level it does suggest some degree of guilt to many of us. I know if my daughter had been murdered by a stranger that I would move heaven and earth to find out who that person was and bring them to justice.

I really am baffled by the Ramsey case. I have some trouble having heard John Ramsey talk and from the few observations that I have been able to make of him on t.v. believing that he was involved in killing his daughter in such a foul manner. Perhaps, I am wrong, but it just doesn't add up to me.

 
Old 12-31-2013, 06:14 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
24,097 posts, read 32,437,200 times
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I don't think that either PR or JR killed their daughter with their own hands that night. I do think that PR physically abused her. That seems clear, from all I have read.

What I think happened that night was something that had happened on other occasions. I think another party known to that parents, and to Jonbenet; killed her in the commission of a bizarre and twisted sex act gone wrong. I think they "lent her out to others", for lack of a better term; and no; not for the money.

I think that the parents were complicit.
 
Old 01-02-2014, 10:18 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
297 posts, read 519,746 times
Reputation: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
So many times when a child dies, the family is suspected. I don't know who killed Jon Benet, but I think it is important to note that this was an isolated event, there have not been any other crimes similar to this in the Boulder area, or even other places. Not a serial child predator. That can be ruled out.

If it was a person outside of the family, the person had to have familiarity with the home, the people in the home, and lack of alarms, dogs, or security. I don't recall the family identifying a person like that to be investigated.

I am pretty sure if this happened in my home, and I was accused of the crime, and I knew I was innocent, I would have hired private investigators to follow up on things, if the police were solely focused on me. I don't recall the family doing this.

The lack of any substantial evidence, or new information really makes this a cold case, someone knows something, and to be silent this long, is very interesting. Covering up for someone. Only family loyalty can create that silence.
The family did hire private investigators: Ollie Gray, Ellis Armistead, John San Augustine, Pete Peterson.

However, I do not think the job of any of those PI's was to find the real killer. I think the Ramseys are guilty, and I think the reason why they hired PI's was for PR reasons: It would make it look like they were looking for the real killer, that the police were doing nothing to find him so they needed to hire about 4 PI's to track him down, and so they could go on TV, and tell the public about how they think this intruder did it, or they found some new evidence, etc etc.
 
Old 01-02-2014, 11:02 AM
 
Location: USA
7,776 posts, read 12,436,414 times
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It is more believable to me that John Ramsey was having sexual relations with his daughter than an outsider. It is not unheard of. Patsy discovered it and went berserk.
 
Old 01-02-2014, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Midwestern Dystopia
2,417 posts, read 3,560,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Those are their constitutionally protected rights and no inference of guilt is supposed to be made against anyone who does such things.
no, it's not strange that it was until APRIL of next year that either of them allowed the police to interview them actually at the police station. April.

99.999999% of parents would've done anything and cooperated with the police immediately after what happened to their child. Some parents would've even consulted with and had their attorney present at questioning but innocent, desperate to find out what happened to their child parents, would show way more cooperation with authorities.

they continuously refused to be questioned separately as well, which is SOP. Hiring a PR person, etc.

say what you want, the Ramsey's brought a lot of suspicion on to themselves with the way they acted. Way outside the bounds of normalcy, even for "rich people"
 
Old 01-02-2014, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 25,996,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger View Post
no, it's not strange that it was until APRIL of next year that either of them allowed the police to interview them actually at the police station. April.

99.999999% of parents would've done anything and cooperated with the police immediately after what happened to their child. Some parents would've even consulted with and had their attorney present at questioning but innocent, desperate to find out what happened to their child parents, would show way more cooperation with authorities.

they continuously refused to be questioned separately as well, which is SOP. Hiring a PR person, etc.

say what you want, the Ramsey's brought a lot of suspicion on to themselves with the way they acted. Way outside the bounds of normalcy, even for "rich people"
Can you prove the bolded?

Again, it is constitutionally protected rights that a person does not have to talk to the cops under any circumstances, that they may refuse to take a polygraph exam, and that they may have an attorney represent them, and that no inference of guilt can be made from doing any of those things.

If you don't like that, then take it up with the federal courts, but make sure that you have standing to do so, first.
 
Old 01-02-2014, 05:28 PM
 
18,836 posts, read 37,347,105 times
Reputation: 26469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi3 View Post
It is more believable to me that John Ramsey was having sexual relations with his daughter than an outsider. It is not unheard of. Patsy discovered it and went berserk.
This would not surprise me. When we look at the bedwetting issue JBR had, that is an indication of some type of issue. And many women go into some sort of warp, blaming the child for the problems, rather than the adult! Patsy suspected the relationship, was jealous, and powerless to stop the situation. Why? She lived an upperclass life, if her husband went to jail, there goes the lifestyle. Even a divorce would have changd her life. I can easily see her ignoring the entire dynamic, pretending everything is fine. LALALALA. ...and let's say JBR wanted it to end, and went to her Mother for help...don't forge the unexplained 911 call...her Mother loses it...didn't mean to knock her quite so hard, she stops breathing, panic mode...does the bizarre naked rope thing, at this time, completely. Depersonalizing JBR, making the whole thing her fault.

Jon has to go along with it, because what can he do? Cop to molesting JBR?

Or there was no sexual abuse by Jon, but he knew Patsy abused JBR, he never intervened. JBR dies, John is complcit in never reporting or stopping the abuse by Patsy, he goes along with story, because he is as guilty as her.
 
Old 01-02-2014, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 25,996,493 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
This would not surprise me. When we look at the bedwetting issue JBR had, that is an indication of some type of issue. And many women go into some sort of warp, blaming the child for the problems, rather than the adult! Patsy suspected the relationship, was jealous, and powerless to stop the situation. Why? She lived an upperclass life, if her husband went to jail, there goes the lifestyle. Even a divorce would have changd her life. I can easily see her ignoring the entire dynamic, pretending everything is fine. LALALALA. ...and let's say JBR wanted it to end, and went to her Mother for help...don't forge the unexplained 911 call...her Mother loses it...didn't mean to knock her quite so hard, she stops breathing, panic mode...does the bizarre naked rope thing, at this time, completely. Depersonalizing JBR, making the whole thing her fault.

Jon has to go along with it, because what can he do? Cop to molesting JBR?

Or there was no sexual abuse by Jon, but he knew Patsy abused JBR, he never intervened. JBR dies, John is complcit in never reporting or stopping the abuse by Patsy, he goes along with story, because he is as guilty as her.
WOW!

Moderator cut: personal remarks

Let's hope that you are never on a jury.

You have everything figured out, don't you?

Last edited by Marka; 01-17-2014 at 05:28 AM..
 
Old 01-02-2014, 06:50 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,717 posts, read 26,776,017 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I don't think that either PR or JR killed their daughter with their own hands that night. What I think happened that night was something that had happened on other occasions. I think another party known to that parents, and to Jonbenet; killed her in the commission of a bizarre and twisted sex act gone wrong.
Your post is the closest to the truth, IMO. It's the only scenario that would explain why Patsy's and John's stories didn't match, and what their frantic and strange behaviors meant from the time that the "ransom" note was found until JonBenet's body was discovered. I really don't think Patsy knew about it, but once her husband informed her, she had no choice but to go along with his story...or so she believed.
 
Old 01-02-2014, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 25,996,493 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
What I think happened that night was something that had happened on other occasions. I think another party known to that parents, and to Jonbenet; killed her in the commission of a bizarre and twisted sex act gone wrong. I think they "lent her out to others", for lack of a better term; and no; not for the money.
Are you trying to say that Jonbenet Ramsey was killed twice?
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