Elizabeth Smart Trial (children, case, husband, criminal) - True Crime -Crime in the news, unsolved cases - City-Data Forum

jasper12 · 11-09-2010, 05:49 PM

I was not sure to put this here, or in Salt Lake City, but I just can't help but to be in awe of this poised young woman, who went through a horrific experience, and is now a brght, young woman who is going on with her life despite this terrible experience. I am so impressed with her, and her family.

Her rapist, who pretends to be crazy, needs to be put away in a dark place forever. He is not crazy. People who are insane do not break into someone's home, steal a child, rape a child, and keep her hostage for months. That is sick, no doubt, but not crazy.

sskkc · 11-10-2010, 07:27 AM

I'm not sure why the entire family wasn't locked up! His stepdaughter was being interviewed last week, angry because "the poor man" wasn't going to get a fair trial. What a waste of taxpayer dollars! Whatever happened to a good, old-fashioned hanging party?

Cunucu Beach · 11-10-2010, 04:10 PM

I have marveled at how well Elizabeth Smart has recovered from a trauma that would leave most of us in a post-traumatic psychiatric condition for years. I can attribute this to nothing other than a family and community environment that fosters strong character and tight, supportive family and community bonds.

Katzpur · 11-11-2010, 07:53 PM

She is truly a remarkable young woman. Her poise and self-confidence are absolutely amazing. I mean she's only 23! For her to have to recount the horrible things that depraved monster did to her and to have done so with such composure just blows me away! Someday, she will make some man a wonderful wife and children a wonderful mother. I stand in awe of her.

NHartphotog · 11-12-2010, 03:03 PM

One of the court-TV channels is following this case on TV, and today talked about the detective who actually found and interviewed Elizabeth and her captors in a library (after someone recognized Elizabeth's eyes in spite of the veil). The man who kidnapped her, Brian David Mitchell, rushed over and said the detective could not remove Elizabeth's veil because their religion forbid it. He was insistent and the detective eventually walked away.

Even worse, the detective said he would not do anything differently, if he had to do it again in the future!

I don't care what religion you belong to, you should not be able to use it to prevent the investigation of crimes. Long-term kidnapping victims like Elizabeth often suffer from Stockholm Syndrome and cannot speak for themselves. Consequently, we need a legal way to prevent future kidnappers from using the trappings of some religion to hide their criminal activities.

Precedent has been set: any kidnappers active in America now know that veils and claims of religion can literally paralyze law enforcement's efforts to save their victims.

In this case, it should be obvious that a female detective should have been called (that covers the "modesty" claim that the veil is supposed to be there for), and if there was any doubt whatsoever that this is the kidnapping victim, they should be detained until a blood test or family interview can be done. The potential victim should ALWAYS be interviewed away from the people with them--especially when dealing with minors. Do it with female officers and social workers, but give a potential victim a safe environment in which to realize help is available.

That detective should be fired immediately. And any of his superiors that led him to think you had to let a criminal go because a "freedom of religion" claim stops any investigation in its tracks.

And someone high up in the Judicial Branch should set out clear and legal policies for the detective on the street to follow when a claim of "Freedom of Religion" comes up. It should not be a "get out of jail free" card.

Katzpur · 11-12-2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHartphotog

In this case, it should be obvious that a female detective should have been called (that covers the "modesty" claim that the veil is supposed to be there for), and if there was any doubt whatsoever that this is the kidnapping victim, they should be detained until a blood test or family interview can be done. The potential victim should ALWAYS be interviewed away from the people with them--especially when dealing with minors. Do it with female officers and social workers, but give a potential victim a safe environment in which to realize help is available.

First off, if a female detective had been called in, Mitchell would have come up with another excuse. He knew that any law-enforcement officer would have been able to recognize Elizabeth had her veil been removed. A female officer would have found herself in exactly the same position as the male officer did. You are right that the potential victim should be interviewed away from the supposed perpetrator. Had this been done, either a male or a female officer could have said to Elizabeth, "We believe you are Elizabeth Smart. If you are, all you have to do is say so. The man and woman you are with will be arrested immediately and you will be protected." Elizabeth would have not had to remove her veil and the "modesty claim" would have been a non-issue.

Quote:

That detective should be fired immediately. And any of his superiors that led him to think you had to let a criminal go because a "freedom of religion" claim stops any investigation in its tracks.

I think you're being too hard on him. Of course it would have been better had he pushed the issue, but hindsight is inevitably better than foresight. He said he feels terrible about what happened, but he wasn't making up his own rules. He was doing what he'd been trained to do. It's the rules that need revising.

Katzpur · 11-12-2010, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sskkc

I'm not sure why the entire family wasn't locked up! His stepdaughter was being interviewed last week, angry because "the poor man" wasn't going to get a fair trial. What a waste of taxpayer dollars! Whatever happened to a good, old-fashioned hanging party?

And guess what? Soon after Mitchell and Wanda Barzee were arrested, a woman my husband worked with at the time said she had to go visit her mother in jail. The woman's name was Rhonda Barzee. Can you believe that!

jasper12 · 11-13-2010, 06:09 AM

Well, just because you have crazy parents, does not make you crazy. My parents...once I was at work, and my Dad came to see me, he was waiting for me in the front office, and my boss told the secretary to "call the psych ward, we have one of their patients down here"...and my Mom...is well known to CPS. You know it is an unusual childhood when you know CPS workers by name, and have your own bed at Christmas Box House.

And yet, the strong manage to survive.

I always wondered how it was the Elizabeth Smart did not get pregnant during this ordeal, it makes me wonder, about that other girl as well, Jaycee Duggar, who was stolen, and found after 16 years. What do we need to do as a society to protect young women like this? Should the neighbors have been more nosy into the business of people who are secretive with young girls? Are there others out there, who are captives, in maybe in our nieghborhoods, who are hoping to be saved?

sskkc · 11-13-2010, 06:27 AM

Well, just because you have crazy parents, does not make you crazy.

Not usually. Though it is an indicator!

What showed this entire family is sick was this woman's attitude - like they were PICKING on this sick, sick man. So what?

And as to the detective - do you know who/what is behind stupid laws like that? Politically correct nonsense. When I see someone cut off an ambulance, I say the same thing I feel when someone defends this type of stuff - I hope the person who needs help is important to, and loved by the one preventing/delaying the help.

markg91359 · 11-13-2010, 10:23 AM

Quote:

I always wondered how it was the Elizabeth Smart did not get pregnant during this ordeal, it makes me wonder, about that other girl as well, Jaycee Duggar, who was stolen, and found after 16 years. What do we need to do as a society to protect young women like this? Should the neighbors have been more nosy into the business of people who are secretive with young girls? Are there others out there, who are captives, in maybe in our nieghborhoods, who are hoping to be saved?

I live in the same state that the Smarts' do and this case has always been big news here.

I admire the way that the Smarts have handled this matter since Elizabeth was found. There focus has been on making people aware of these problems and getting laws passed. Ed Smart does not strike me as a man who wants vengeance. He wants to prevent these kinds of things from occurring again. His passion is well focused.

Nevertheless, this kidnapping could have been prevented in the first place. It needs to be pointed out that Ed Smart hired this man who was a drifter, to come into his home and do some repair work. That is how he found out about Elizabeth and how he obtained the information necessary to break into the Smart home and kidnap her. I always thought that doing that showed a lack of good sense. I am very careful about who I allow in my home. I usually deal with only established companies to do home repair and maintenance. I can think of one exception I made to that rule, but it was only because this individual was a longtime school teacher, with a family of five children, and came highly recommended to us.

I don't think blaming victims is a good idea. However, I think in this instance, Smart showed a lack of good judgment. Its very sad when family members must reap the consequences from poor judgment. I think that is something all of us could learn from the Elizabeth Smart case in terms of prevention.