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I sort of agree with that. I used to think PR killed her, but now I think it was all Burke. I think he strangled her to a point maybe not even to kill her originally and then got frightened by what he'd done and was afraid he'd get in trouble, or maybe Jon Benet threatened to tell on him so he hit her over the head.
I do think the parents covered it up though.
I would love to find out about Burkes younger years and what kind of child he was but I can't any info. on that at all.
I sort of agree with that. I used to think PR killed her, but now I think it was all Burke. I think he strangled her to a point maybe not even to kill her originally and then got frightened by what he'd done and was afraid he'd get in trouble, or maybe Jon Benet threatened to tell on him so he hit her over the head.
I do think the parents covered it up though.
I would love to find out about Burkes younger years and what kind of child he was but I can't any info. on that at all.
There are some older [domain blocked due to spam] entries about Burke which probably need to be taken with a large grain of salt, considering that site. But - for the record, one recounted an incident from his junior high/middle school years, well after JonBenet's death. He is said to have become very angry for some unknown reason that centered around his playing trumpet in the school band - supposedly, he threw it on the floor at school and screamed "I never want to see a trumpet again!" or words to that effect, while the other kids just stared at him. Afterwards, he played the saxophone, again, according to this rather dubious source, and never again touched a trumpet.
Now, this could all be made up, or it could be accurate, or there could be a small element of truth. The incident itself has no bearing on JonBenet's murder, but it does describe Burke's lack of self-control in dealing with frustration. I do not know what playing the trumpet or being around the trumpet or the school setting may have had to do with that frustration and anger - but it does describe a situation in which Burke lost self-control when another child of this age would not have reacted quite so vehemently around their peers. It sounded as if he had a temper tantrum similar to one a preschooler would throw, hence the reaction of the other kids.
Burke would have been anywhere from eleven to fourteen when this occurred, if he was in junior high or middle school. Wait a minute - he was in the fourth grade and almost ten when JonBenet was murdered, so he would have been at least eleven, almost twelve by the time he was in sixth grade, the earliest likely year for middle school, which usually includes grades 6-8. Junior high is usually 7-9, so he might have been 12-15 instead. Highly unusual public behavior for a boy of this age range, in either case.
Was he being teased? If so, why? What was there are the trumpet that set him off? Why was his anger directed at the instrument rather than at a person or persons? Did he play poorly? Was there a particular piece of music that was a problem for some reason? Did the band have "challenges", in which two young members compete to see who gets the higher chair? (the best musicians get the top chairs, with the first chair being the one closest to the conductor and the audience, or on the right if the section concerned is at the back of the stage or performance hall. Challenges are the usual way of determining who sits where, and are considered to be a good way to encourage young musicians to practice and do their best, as it's an honor to have a higher seat). It sounds as if it was the instrument itself which was the issue, not playing in the band or challenges, as both would apply to the saxophone as well.
Again, this is based on an account from a source which is not always trustworthy, so take it as you will with that in mind. But it has the ring of being based on a real incident, unusual in itself - and revealing, given the events of Burke's previous life.
Edited to add: I see that the site referred to has been blocked due to spam. Its name starts with T, and it's nationwide, with forums for most communities. It is popular with teens and people with little evident education, and is quite gossipy, which is why I included caveats in my original post about it. Send me a PM if you can't figure it out.
Later yet edit: Just checked out the JonBenet thread on this other site, and found that most of the posters there appear to be thoughtful, intelligent and reasonably well-informed, unlike many of the posters in other forums on this particular site. Most there, as here, have concluded that Burke was involved in his sister's death and that his parents did the cover-up, but they are also baffled by the brutality of the strangulation, etc. Much of what is being discussed there is also under discussion here.
Edited yet AGAIN: please see my post below. The essence of this story is correct, but I misremembered a few details and its source online.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 09-30-2016 at 02:16 PM..
They were there "for hours" only during the time the Ramseys were at the Whites. The actual strangulation and killing probably did not take very long, and it was in the basement, three stories below the master bedroom.
Since it takes around three hours for fruit to enter the small intestine after being eaten, the hypothetical killer must have been in the house for at least three hours AFTER the family came home. Probably longer, since John and Burke stayed up for a time after they got home.
After some more thinking, I am getting more convinced that Burke did more than just bash her over the head. If that had been all, then the parents would have called 911. Kids do hit other kids and he would have just gotten mental health help.
So now I'm tending to think, along with many others on here, that he went a bit further than that. Maybe he did do some of the strangulation. Maybe he'd read about it and actually knew how to do it. If the Ramseys had discovered that sort of scene, they would have been totally aghast and never would have wanted anyone to know what he did.
John and Patsy would have just taken it a few steps further to look even more like a strangulation and Patsy would have busied herself writing the "note."
Well, I am mistaken about the source of the story I cited above: it was posted in the National Inquirer, and quoted right here at C-D back in 2014. And it was a trombone, not a trumpet, which is reported to have set Burke off. Read all about it in "JonBenet Ramsey Part II" #253. The incident happened when he was eleven, at the Atlanta elementary school he attended. So it was not too long after the murder, evidently...
My apologies for misremembering and for relying on memory.
Since it takes around three hours for fruit to enter the small intestine after being eaten, the hypothetical killer must have been in the house for at least three hours AFTER the family came home.
There are so many theories about the pineapple that it's hard to know what to believe.
From Webbsleuths:
"The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple.
Fleet White has stated he does not know if pineapple was served at their home Christmas night. From Judge Carnes ruling - - the very bottom of page 7
"Mr. White does not recall if pineapple was served at his
dinner party on December 25, 1996. (F. White Dep. at 202.)"
Patsy mentioned Priscilla served cocktail wieners with pineapple.
While Steve Thomas claims the pineapple in her intestine matched “down to the rind” to the pineapple in the bowl, the following comment was made by Tom Haney:
TH: Right. And, again I am not a scientist or anything but from what we are told, pineapple goes in at X time and a certain amount of time later, it is gone. Okay. It goes through a particular process, and there is a way to estimate times based on that depending on where it is in the body.
PR: When she would have eaten it, so you can tell somewhere in there?
TH: Well, I am really not at liberty to discuss that part of it with you now. Okay.
PR: All right. Do we know this is what she ate?
TH: We are pretty sure it was pineapple.
PR: This pineapple?
TH: Well, I don't think that science has come quite that far that you could say.
AND - from the Steve Thomas deposition - the following:
Q. You don't recall Dr. Michael Graham taking the position that the pineapple found in JonBenet's digestive system could have been eaten the day before? Does that refresh you in terms of Michael Graham's involvement?
A. No, since you mentioned pineapple –
A. What I know about that is Detective Weinheimer received that assignment during the course of the investigation, employed the help of I think a biological -- or a botanist or somebody of some expertise at the University of Colorado, Boulder. The name Dr. Bach jumps out at me, as well as others, and he completed a series of reports concerning the pineapple and I think to save time one of those conclusions I think I put in the book.
Q. About the rinds being identical?
A. That it was a fresh pineapple consistent -- fresh pineapple with a rind.
Q. Rind being consistent -- oh, with a rind but consistent with pineapple found in the house or in the bowl?
A. Yeah, and let me clarify that, pineapple consistent down to the rind with pineapple found in the bowl in the kitchen.
Q. Consistent down to the rind. It seems to me pineapple with rind is pineapple with rind. Was there something unique about this particular rind?
A. I think they were able to determine -- well, in fact, I know that fellow Officer Weinheimer disclosed to us that they were able to characterize it as a fresh pineapple rather than a canned pineapple.
Q. Okay.
A. I think the investigation lent itself as far as, and Detective Weinheimer is a capable investigator, as far as contacting Dole Pineapple in Hawaii, et cetera.
Q. Do you know whether there were any other reports on the pineapple, other than the autopsy reports and Dr. Bach's reports?
A. Yeah, there was a series of reports on Weinheimer's investigation.
Q. Do you know anybody else by name that was involved in that, other than the Dr. Bach? I mean, Dole didn't give you any report, did they?
A. No, not that I'm aware of. Sorry, the names escape me but there are other reports with other planters, I guess, pineapple, for lack of a better term, experts.
Q. Any of those reports, anybody come up with something that was inconclusive in terms of findings?
A. I'm sorry, I don't recall the content of the reports.
Is there any proof that a book called MindHunter was sitting in the Ramsey's bedroom? It's been mentioned because it supposedly contains a story similar to that of JBR AND the murderer used the words, "Listen carefully."
(still googling to find if this is true about their having this book in the bedroom.)
There are some older [domain blocked due to spam] entries about Burke which probably need to be taken with a large grain of salt, considering that site. But - for the record, one recounted an incident from his junior high/middle school years, well after JonBenet's death. He is said to have become very angry for some unknown reason that centered around his playing trumpet in the school band - supposedly, he threw it on the floor at school and screamed "I never want to see a trumpet again!" or words to that effect, while the other kids just stared at him. Afterwards, he played the saxophone, again, according to this rather dubious source, and never again touched a trumpet.
Now, this could all be made up, or it could be accurate, or there could be a small element of truth. The incident itself has no bearing on JonBenet's murder, but it does describe Burke's lack of self-control in dealing with frustration. I do not know what playing the trumpet or being around the trumpet or the school setting may have had to do with that frustration and anger - but it does describe a situation in which Burke lost self-control when another child of this age would not have reacted quite so vehemently around their peers. It sounded as if he had a temper tantrum similar to one a preschooler would throw, hence the reaction of the other kids.
Burke would have been anywhere from eleven to fourteen when this occurred, if he was in junior high or middle school. Wait a minute - he was in the fourth grade and almost ten when JonBenet was murdered, so he would have been at least eleven, almost twelve by the time he was in sixth grade, the earliest likely year for middle school, which usually includes grades 6-8. Junior high is usually 7-9, so he might have been 12-15 instead. Highly unusual public behavior for a boy of this age range, in either case.
Was he being teased? If so, why? What was there are the trumpet that set him off? Why was his anger directed at the instrument rather than at a person or persons? Did he play poorly? Was there a particular piece of music that was a problem for some reason? Did the band have "challenges", in which two young members compete to see who gets the higher chair? (the best musicians get the top chairs, with the first chair being the one closest to the conductor and the audience, or on the right if the section concerned is at the back of the stage or performance hall. Challenges are the usual way of determining who sits where, and are considered to be a good way to encourage young musicians to practice and do their best, as it's an honor to have a higher seat). It sounds as if it was the instrument itself which was the issue, not playing in the band or challenges, as both would apply to the saxophone as well.
Again, this is based on an account from a source which is not always trustworthy, so take it as you will with that in mind. But it has the ring of being based on a real incident, unusual in itself - and revealing, given the events of Burke's previous life.
Edited to add: I see that the site referred to has been blocked due to spam. Its name starts with T, and it's nationwide, with forums for most communities. It is popular with teens and people with little evident education, and is quite gossipy, which is why I included caveats in my original post about it. Send me a PM if you can't figure it out.
Later yet edit: Just checked out the JonBenet thread on this other site, and found that most of the posters there appear to be thoughtful, intelligent and reasonably well-informed, unlike many of the posters in other forums on this particular site. Most there, as here, have concluded that Burke was involved in his sister's death and that his parents did the cover-up, but they are also baffled by the brutality of the strangulation, etc. Much of what is being discussed there is also under discussion here.
Edited yet AGAIN: please see my post below. The essence of this story is correct, but I misremembered a few details and its source online.
I can imagine he was teased for a variety of reasons. Being "famous" is one of them. I also think, as evidenced by a lot of these documentaries, he never really got a long with his peers. I also think, as evidenced by his parents, he was probably taught to be standoffish and think he was better than others. If he had any issues, like say autism, the other children were aware.
Since it takes around three hours for fruit to enter the small intestine after being eaten, the hypothetical killer must have been in the house for at least three hours AFTER the family came home. Probably longer, since John and Burke stayed up for a time after they got home.
Is there any proof that a book called MindHunter was sitting in the Ramsey's bedroom? It's been mentioned because it supposedly contains a story similar to that of JBR AND the murderer used the words, "Listen carefully."
(still googling to find if this is true about their having this book in the bedroom.)
not sure but I believe several phrases (like 4-5) in the ransom note were taken from movies in their collection (vcr tapes etc.) and/or from movie posters in the home.
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