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Like reports from the housekeeper that Burke & JBR played doctor in his bed. Or other reports from the housekeeper. Reports from friends whose kids played with JBR and may have noticed that something was not right--she may have told them things or hinted at things. Reports of how Burke had sleep overs with other boys at the house and what may have happened. Things their kids may have come back and reported to the parents.
Reports from other people who worked for the Ramseys and mentioned that Burke became violent. Conversations with his teacher. Wetting her pants all the time at other people's houses and also crying out to be wiped. Odd things that concerned people would have noticed.
Mostly I think word gets around. Maybe some of them shared the same housekeeper or the same teacher, many had kids the same age as JBR. People talk. I don't think pageant participation would have been considered grounds for abuse at all. Maybe not quite socially acceptable in Boulder but people would have understood that cultural norms differ from place to place. There must have been suspicions that something else was going on, something wrong and potentially dangerous.
There were several medical experts that were shown the autopsy and concluded that she had been chronically sexually abused. Some commenters inferred at the time that her mother had to have known about ongoing sexual abuse because she had also been taken to her pediatrician 27 times in the 3 years before her death. If true, she would be aware that the truth would come out from an autopsy. They would also have to invent some way to cover it up by making the death look like a sexual assault.
The perp would have to read the newspaper from front to back, from the business section where John's info might've been, to wherever else JBR's pageant info would've been, such as the main page, Lifestyle section, etc; to know that John even had a daughter.
I don't think it was a disgruntled employee from Access Graphics. The BPD had full access to the HR dept records from JR and his company complied; they apparently ruled out the two employees who were let go and who may have had something against JR.
It could have been someone who saw JBR in a parade--or a picture of her--and found out that her father was a wealthy businessman. Not that hard to put together; Boulder is not a very big town. Also, they got some things wrong in the RN, e.g. "Use that good southern common sense of yours," when JR was not from the South.
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They would have to do this possibly for at least a year or more in order to get the bonus award amount
JR said he kept pay stubs in drawers; transcripts show that the Ramseys were careless with leaving things out. The killer could have seen the evidence of JR's bonus in a desk drawer and thought it might be funny to ask for that amount. (I still think that these two people were not sober.) They had a lot of time to waste in those hours before the family returned from the Whites.
Remember they never mention JBR by name in the RN; some think that h/she couldn't spell JBR's name.
There were several medical experts that were shown the autopsy and concluded that she had been chronically sexually abused
She was not abused before. Multiple posts, with links, on many of these threads disproving this. Scroll back.
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Some commenters inferred at the time that her mother had to have known about ongoing sexual abuse because she had also been taken to her pediatrician 27 times in the 3 years before her death.
No, another Internet legend. Dr. Beuf, her pediatrician, listed the reasons for each appointment; check the transcripts.
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If true, she would be aware that the truth would come out from an autopsy.
Her pediatrician would have lost his license if he did not report sexual abuse. Scroll back. Do some research.
I don't think it was a disgruntled employee from Access Graphics. The BPD had full access to the HR dept records from JR and his company complied; they apparently ruled out the two employees who were let go and who may have had something against JR.
It could have been someone who saw JBR in a parade--or a picture of her--and found out that her father was a wealthy businessman. Not that hard to put together; Boulder is not a very big town. Also, they got some things wrong in the RN, e.g. "Use that good southern common sense of yours," when JR was not from the South.
JR said he kept pay stubs in drawers; transcripts show that the Ramseys were careless with leaving things out. The killer could have seen the evidence of JR's bonus in a desk drawer and thought it might be funny to ask for that amount. (I still think that these two people were not sober.) They had a lot of time to waste in those hours before the family returned from the Whites.
Remember they never mention JBR by name in the RN; some think that h/she couldn't spell JBR's name.
In IDI theory, the perp(s) are in the home when all four of the Ramseys are there as well. If money was the motive, having John is better than having John's receipts, so it doesn't make sense that they would do a kidnapping instead of getting John to show them where other money in the home is, or use John to wire money or something like that. They stole nothing. They ransacked nothing.
In IDI theory, the perp(s) are in the home when all four of the Ramseys are there as well. If money was the motive, having John is better than having John's receipts, so it doesn't make sense that they would do a kidnapping instead of getting John to show them where other money in the home is, or use John to wire money or something like that. They stole nothing. They ransacked nothing.
There are many IDI theories.
Money being the motive is only one of those theories. So far, I can't see money being a motive; if it were, they would have asked for a lot more. I can't figure out why they brought in the duct tape and the cord if they weren't planning to kidnap her, though. I still think that something went wrong and they (he?) did not intend to kill her.
You're right. But scouts and the band are not quite the same thing as a child dressing up in a costume, having her hair done, riding in a convertible in a parade. Few unsavory characters would be interested in a kid in a scout uniform or a band uniform.
Like what, though?
The dance/twirl/gymnstics kids in the parades do wear costumes...twirlers wear costumes similar to one piece bathing suits, gymnasts usually wear tight fitting full-body leotards, and the dancers wear ballet costumes or whatever...most do wear makeup, and most do have their hair done. They're not usually in a convertible, but they're often just prancing along the street. I don't know of anyone who thinks those kids are being abused because they participate in parades and recitals.
I think we've been down this road before, but in_newengland's post #2348 and virgode's post #2351 pretty much sums up why I think the GJ wanted to indict. They had a wealth of information, heard the Smit theory, and still voted to indict. I'll add though, I think the failure to seek medical attention for JBR was part of the child abuse count.
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In some of the articles linked to on here, I read one acct that said the GJ only going with those two counts and not murder shows that they were, forgot the word he used, indecisive, not in agreement, whatever. I think they didn't go with murder because they were looking at Burke as the person who struck the blow to the head.
They had a wealth of information, heard the Smit theory, and still voted to indict. I'll add though, I think the failure to seek medical attention for JBR was part of the child abuse count.
A few pages back, I posted that a summary of the GJ evidence is on another forum. It shows that the conclusion was based on "evidence" such as: prior vaginal trauma, the ransom note coming from a notepad of Patsy Ramsey’s, on one handwriting "expert" saying he could not rule out PR as the author of the RN, the pineapple in the bowl that PR said she didn't serve to JBR, security of the home (disabling the alarm system, leaving windows or doors unlocked), not having better security for Burke when he returned to school after the murder, the broken basement window that Det Arndt claimed that JR did not report, etc.
A lot of that "evidence" is not factual. Woodward makes several references in her book about the GJ. John Andrew Ramsey said, regarding his testimony, "Grand jury prosecutor Michael Kane and I really butted heads during my testimony." Susan Stine, who was a witness, said, "It was very clear to me that the prosecutors were out to get the Ramseys. That's how the questioning was shaped. Their questions were filled with facts and evidence that the police and prosecutors should have already known wasn't accurate."
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I read one acct that said the GJ only going with those two counts and not murder shows that they were, forgot the word he used, indecisive, not in agreement, whatever. I think they didn't go with murder because they were looking at Burke as the person who struck the blow to the head.
The grand jury prosecutors presented at least seven alternative legal theories of the parents' possible involvement in her murder. The GJ indicted on two. And obviously, their information was based on what ONLY the prosecution said. That's the nature of a grand jury.
There's YET ANOTHER show on this being broadcast tonight on, I think, Lifetime... "Twenty Years Later." Is this being rebroadcast from another station; is it a repeat? Because all of these shows are running together for me at this point!
She was not abused before. Multiple posts, with links, on many of these threads disproving this. Scroll back.
It's in the Det. Thomas book, "An Angel Betrayed" and in several other JBR books. Boulder brought in a panel of outside medical experts in 1997 to review the autopsy evidence. They signed affidavits stating that the injuries were consistent with "prior trauma and sexual abuse". There was chronic abuse.
The writer of the RN must have really liked that movie. According to Woodward's book, the person who wrote the RN to Ramsey warned him four times what to do to get his daughter back, or "she dies." The killer in "Dirty Harry" warns what to do three times or "the girl dies."
Somehow I can't see a 53 year old father of four watching that film multiple times. (But I can see a 20 year old doing it.)
I didn't say he watched it multiple times at one sitting. If you saw it when you were young and again at other times throughout your life, you tend to remember key scenes in the movie. When I saw the ransom note, the ransom delivery sequence came immediately to mind, especially because of Andrew Robinson's crazed and frenetic delivery of the lines.
If you're conjuring something of a similar nature, you're going to try to recall relevant details from news, films, and fictional stories that you can use in your writing.
In any event, the ransom note was a failed attempt at diversion. The writer attempts to pose as a foreign terrorist but fails to list any political grievances. There was a long list of unnecessary delivery instructions when a phone call with instructions would be supposedly forthcoming.
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