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A few pages back, I posted that a summary of the GJ evidence is on another forum. It shows that the conclusion was based on "evidence" such as: prior vaginal trauma, the ransom note coming from a notepad of Patsy Ramsey’s, on one handwriting "expert" saying he could not rule out PR as the author of the RN, the pineapple in the bowl that PR said she didn't serve to JBR, security of the home (disabling the alarm system, leaving windows or doors unlocked), not having better security for Burke when he returned to school after the murder, the broken basement window that Det Arndt claimed that JR did not report, etc.
A lot of that "evidence" is not factual. Woodward makes several references in her book about the GJ. John Andrew Ramsey said, regarding his testimony, "Grand jury prosecutor Michael Kane and I really butted heads during my testimony." Susan Stine, who was a witness, said, "It was very clear to me that the prosecutors were out to get the Ramseys. That's how the questioning was shaped. Their questions were filled with facts and evidence that the police and prosecutors should have already known wasn't accurate."
The grand jury prosecutors presented at least seven alternative legal theories of the parents' possible involvement in her murder. The GJ indicted on two. And obviously, their information was based on what ONLY the prosecution said. That's the nature of a grand jury.
I don't see how that got out. I thought there were four pages released, the four true bills. I'm skeptical of the source and accuracy of that information.
John Andrew, JR's son, and Susan Stine, close friend of JR and PR - that's just what I'd expect them to say. Their opinions are highly biased.
I don't see how that got out. I thought there were four pages released, the four true bills. I'm skeptical of the source and accuracy of that information.
Google it, and I'm sure you can find it. We're not supposed to post links to competing forums. (Who would believe that the autopsy photos were released, but they were.)
The dance/twirl/gymnstics kids in the parades do wear costumes...twirlers wear costumes similar to one piece bathing suits, gymnasts usually wear tight fitting full-body leotards, and the dancers wear ballet costumes or whatever...most do wear makeup, and most do have their hair done. They're not usually in a convertible, but they're often just prancing along the street.
I have no idea what goes through the mind of someone who would target a child.
"Detective Smit states that JonBenet was a "pedophile's dream come true." (SMF ¶ 122; PSMF ¶ 122.) Jon-Benet received considerable public attention as "Little Miss Colorado" and through several beauty pageants in which she participated. (SMF ¶ 121; PSMF ¶ 121.) On December 6, 1996, three weeks before the murder, she was in the Lights of December Parade, an event thousands of people attended. (Smit. Dep. at 147.)"
-Judge Carnes ruling
Thomas was sued for libel and defamation because of the false information he wrote; he lost the lawsuit.
Quote:
Boulder brought in a panel of outside medical experts in 1997 to review the autopsy evidence. They signed affidavits stating that the injuries were consistent with "prior trauma and sexual abuse". There was chronic abuse.
Do you have a link?
Despite what Chief Beckner stated, "no physician who examined JBR's body or consulted with the Boulder County Coroner said she had been sexually violated other than during the time period when she was killed. The coroner, who conducted the autopsy, wrote about her genitalia..." (you can look that up in the autopsy report). "The coroner, a forensic pathologist, was specifically trained in examining bodies in suspicious circumstances. The day of the autopsy, he called a medical specialist from Children's Hospital in Denver to help examine JBR's body. Both agreed that there had been penetration but no rape, and there was no evidence of prior sexual abuse of JBR.
By Colorado law, JBR's primary pediatirican would have been prosecuted and lost his medical license if he had suspected any kind of sexual abuse during his time as her doctor and not reported it.....Four medical experts, including the Boulder County Coroner, who performed the autopsy, all agreed there was no prior assault. They were all involved in the case."
-Woodward, We Have Your Daughter, pp 453-454.
Lots of stuff was leaked to the media in 1997, apparently from both the BPD and the DA's office, about incest: one story of which was about JR's dead daughter, Beth, and another about a woman who was a victim of incest by her father and a spokeswoman for survivors of incest.
Thomas was sued for libel and defamation because of the false information he wrote; he lost the lawsuit.
Do you have a link?
Despite what Chief Beckner stated, "no physician who examined JBR's body or consulted with the Boulder County Coroner said she had been sexually violated other than during the time period when she was killed. The coroner, who conducted the autopsy, wrote about her genitalia..." (you can look that up in the autopsy report). "The coroner, a forensic pathologist, was specifically trained in examining bodies in suspicious circumstances. The day of the autopsy, he called a medical specialist from Children's Hospital in Denver to help examine JBR's body. Both agreed that there had been penetration but no rape, and there was no evidence of prior sexual abuse of JBR.
By Colorado law, JBR's primary pediatirican would have been prosecuted and lost his medical license if he had suspected any kind of sexual abuse during his time as her doctor and not reported it.....Four medical experts, including the Boulder County Coroner, who performed the autopsy, all agreed there was no prior assault. They were all involved in the case."
-Woodward, We Have Your Daughter, pp 453-454.
Lots of stuff was leaked to the media in 1997, apparently from both the BPD and the DA's office, about incest: one story of which was about JR's dead daughter, Beth, and another about a woman who was a victim of incest by her father and a spokeswoman for survivors of incest.
You can google it from his book. He was sued for libel for accusing Patsy Ramsey of committing the crime. It doesn't necessarily make all of the events cited in the book false. Even with the factual evidence pointing toward a family incident, a case has to be made that differentiates who among the three committed which crime with certainty. There is a 1 in 3 chance of being right.
The pediatrician wasn't among the panel of outside medical experts.
I haven't seen the transcript relating to Ramsey's recollection of the movie, but there would be no way he would say that he remembered the movie. It's not credible to say the least. What else is he going to say in his defense? In any event, my original post didn't state that he was the source of the quotes. My expectation is that two people contributed to the writing of the note with one doing the actual writing and the other providing some input to push it along.
I believe there was prior sexual abuse. Not by an adult but by a young boy or a few boys--maybe Burke's friends who used to sleep over. Playing doctor, doing things to her. The paintbrush was probably stuck up inside her that night to make it look as though the abuse was recent, just happened that very night. Part of the staging to cover up the ongoing abuse that the parents were aware of.
Of course the family pediatrician would have said there was no prior abuse--he had to stick with his story or he would have lost his license. Again, he was a Ramsey family friend so that raises a red flag.
Also, people here have shown again and again that the Ramseys tended to be lazy about getting things taken care of. Seems that they always had more important things to do than to fix the broken basement window or repair that broken door jamb that the housekeeper said finally got so loose that it fell off. Then she said it just sat on a shelf rather than being replaced. And that pesky alarm system that could have been fixed instead of just keeping it turned off. Same with the abuse--they apparently never got around to doing anything about it. Seems that they had a habit of just letting things go, just looking the other way and getting on with their lives.
Even Charlie Brennan didn't think much of Thomas's book. (I’d forgotten that Brennan had a hand in PMPT.)
Former Boulder Detective Makes His Case In Book
... A Case He Couldn't Make In A Courtroom: That Patsy Was To Blame
by Charlie Brennan
April 2000
"Nobody else is saying it, so it appears this falls to me:
Steve Thomas is the little kid who, protesting a call by the ump, takes his bat and ball and quits, bringing the game to an end for everyone.
Thomas is the former Boulder police detective who resigned in protest over the handling of the JonBenet Ramsey murder, and is now telling all in his book published Tuesday, April 11, by St. Martin's Press, "JonBenet -- Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation." It is co-authored by veteran Boulder County non-fiction writer Don Davis.
If there was any question as to whether this case might someday be prosecuted, that question has been answered. It won't. Thomas empties his three years of bitter frustration onto the pages of a book that, while compelling reading for any Ramseyphile, could also serve as exhibits A-through-Z for defense attorneys, should this beleaguered case ever limp battered and bloodied into a courtroom.
We pause for this disclosure: I am far from a disinterested observer in this matter. I worked for 16 months in collaboration with Lawrence Schiller on another Ramsey book, "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town," published in February 1999.
It was, I feel, the definitive book on the Christmas night 1996 murder of Boulder's six-year-old child beauty queen -- until now. A significant number of law enforcement personnel cooperated with Schiller and myself by sharing details they felt could be divulged without compromising the investigation or precluding a future prosecution.
Certainly, we didn't cast all players in an entirely positive light. We exposed bizarre subplots to the drama -- police and prosecutors dallying with a tabloid reporter to advance their own personal vendettas, for example -- that left many shaking their heads in disbelief. The tales of extreme dysfunction between and among some officials involved in this case are already widely chronicled.
Thomas now picks the scabs and the blood is flowing anew.
He holds nothing back in his quiver, blasting District Attorney Alex Hunter ("a Teflon politician who was always one step removed from any carnage left behind by his office"), both the Boulder police chiefs he served under (mocking former Chief Tom Koby's affection for "bluesky psychobabble"), and even dumps on many peers in the detective bureau. The infallible and unforgiving Thomas is not the kind of person you want to unwittingly cut off in traffic.
In an interview with the Denver Post, Thomas declined to say whether the book was based on his own notes or case files. I can answer that one. It's clearly based on case files, some of which he obviously must have carted home sometime before or after noisily throwing down his badge on Aug. 6, 1998.
Readers can see that for themselves as early as page 14, where Thomas and Davis reprint a verbatim transcript of Patsy Ramsey's call to 911. It's all there, down to the last "(inaudible)." As a student of the case who was outside the Ramseys' home to see JonBenet wheeled away past the twinkling white Christmas lights in a body bag, I know this transcript has previously appeared nowhere else. It's not part of any file that is open to the public.
Thomas not only violates the spirit of the oath he took as a law enforcement officer. He also tramples two citizens' rights to a presumption of innocence.
His book makes the case Thomas couldn't make in a courtroom. He flatly declares Patsy committed the murder in a fit of rage over bed-wetting, and that her husband joined the next morning in a cover-up. Thomas isn't alone in embracing such a theory. But this is the first time a central figure in the investigation has dared say so for the record.
In writing "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town," Schiller and I certainly had our own theories, but we spared readers our conjecture. Instead, we clearly laid out the reasons that many believe the Ramseys are guilty, and the reasons that others consider them innocent. We invited readers to draw their own conclusions.
Call me old-fashioned, but for a former detective to unilaterally issue his own indictment through a publisher and not a courtroom, in a case still under investigation, is flat wrong.
Thomas had no experience as a homicide investigator prior to arriving on this stage. He couldn't put together a case that would stand up in a courtroom. Not to be denied, he's doing so in a book. Here, he's unbound by such distractions as the rules that govern evidence.
It should be noted that Thomas walked away from law enforcement one month before a grand jury was even convened in this matter. That panel worked for 13 months after he was gone and still couldn't come up with grounds to indict John and Patsy Ramsey or anyone else.
If I can be forgiven another baseball analogy, it's as if Steve Thomas is the would-be slugger who whiffs in every at-bat during the big game -- then smacks it over the wall off a batting tee in front of the vacant seats after the crowd's gone home.
The product of Thomas and Davis' labors is, no question, essential reading for anyone with an interest in the child murder heard 'round the world. This is the first book published to date from a key participant in the investigation. Its pages carry the ringside sense of intimacy.
But by doing it this way, at this time, Thomas does a disservice to the couple he accuses, to the officers he leaves behind, and most of all, to the memory of a little girl whose murder is now far less likely to be avenged.
There is this irony. Thomas believes Patsy Ramsey struck her daughter in a rage -- then, mistakenly believing JonBenet already dead, applied a garrote to disguise the crime as something else. In taking that second, bizarre step, Thomas believes, Patsy Ramsey then actually killed JonBenet for real.
The ex-detective may well have done the same, misreading this case as over -- then making darn sure that it is."
And why would Dr. Beuf, who examined her from March 1993 to Dec 1996, including vaginal examinations, not be considered a medical expert?
Discussed this earlier (JB111)..... Maybe you forgot; there's no information available stating Dr Beuf performed vaginal exams.
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