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I have to say while I understand LE protecting the integrity of the case, I'd much rather have transparency.
So the phenolphthalein test did not produce bright pink results, just faint pink. Next, the sample will be sent for DNA analysis. If this was in any way related to Maura, wouldn't they have given this information to police before airing these episodes? Even with how hush the police are with this case (and all their cases), wouldn't they move to name a suspect if Maura's DNA, let alone blood, was positively identified in that A-frame house?
It's almost not worth watching the next episode because we can determine it's probably not her blood, or there would have been action from LE by now.
You're right that the DNA will certainly lead nowhere. The series has been pretty level headed, ruling out wild internet-generated theories and speculation, but I am not at as convinced as they are that anything criminal happened at all. The rag in the tailpipe to me suggests an attempt at suicide by someone that realized that even if it worked she would not have time for the carbon monoxide to take effect (it could be effective if there were leaks in the exhaust). Couple this with the father's first reaction being that she had wandered off to commit suicide. The failure to find tracks argues against this but it would not be the first time a thorough search failed.
Ironically, though the scent tracking dogs were controversial in Laci Peterson's case, I like it used here with Maura Murray. But if she never left the road, and walked in the direction she was driving, and ultimately accepting a ride, who picked her up?
Maggie and Art were too quick to dismiss the ski resort guys, imo. I also like the witness who noticed the unusual presence of the red truck (flatbed?), though this hasn't been brought up in the series yet. Did the ski resort employees have a truck which fit this description? Or, the A-frame house guy? If the brother of the A-frame house suspects his own brother, why not come forward publicly on the case? It's not as if the A-frame house guy doesn't know his brother got involved by now.
The more I hear and learn about Maura, the more I think it's such a shame she was taking unnecessary risks and making unwise decisions. A fatal lesson cannot be undone.
It just feels the police have not been aggressive enough (competent?) in their investigation. After all, REFUSING a bloody knife, only to collect it LATER? Geesh.
I live about 30 miles from where her car was found. I had nothing better to do this week and I hadn't been there in a while, so I drove over there and looked around.
The short version of my observations...she didn't get lost in the woods, the show hasn't brought up drowning, and we need to hear from the State Police about their investigation into where she was headed and who she was meeting there, as well as the forensics on the blood.
The long version...
First of all, the site on Rte 112 is only a few miles south of Rte 302, which is a major route into the ski areas in the mountains. The show questioned why she was even on 112. The turnoff from 302 onto 112 has a sign saying Loon Mtn. I think either she was either going to one of the ski resorts and took a wrong turn onto 112 or was headed to Loon. Anyone remember where she’d skied previously or where she’d called to inquire about rooms?
Second of all, Rte 112 is very twisty. Many of the curves are less negotiable than the one where Maura had her accident, which is not a “hairpin” as stated by Fred and the interviewer. I'd guess that if she was really drunk she would have crashed earlier. Did she try to stop there to be picked up by a tandem driver, and ended up in a snowbank?
I call BS on a lot of the stuff said in that show about Maura getting lost. The area is rural and mostly wooded but it's not "desolate" as the interviewer claims.
Rte 112 runs roughly east-west there. If Maura had wandered off to the north of the road, it's only several hundred feet to the Ammonoosuc River and she'd have to turn back if it were open. To the south, there is wooded terrain in a triangular area, and it's <1 mile to Bradley Hill Road on the east, <1/2 mile to French Hill Road on the west, and ~1 1/2 miles to Rte 116 on the south. In the center of the triangle is a hill that likely would have pushed Maura down to one of the sides of the triangle. While it is wooded, most of the trees are deciduous and would have been leafless in mid-winter, making it easier to push through them or to see house or car lights. All along Rte 112 and 116 are homes, orchards, and a big dairy farm, no more than 1/4 mile or so apart. Most of the houses look like they'd been built prior to 2004 (confirmed on Zillow) and the area is criss-crossed with small roads and driveways.
I believe that if a young, healthy person were to get lost there overnight, s/he would most likely be able to find his or her way out by the following day. Overnight temps were upper 20’s which is actually warm for that time of year with a nearly full moon. The distances aren't far and there are plenty of places to find help.
However, if Maura was drunk, she could have collapsed and died of exposure. If she wanted to die, as her father suggested in last week's episode, she could have sat down and died of exposure. Neither of those things explain why her body wasn't found...I can't imagine that triangle wasn't thoroughly searched, and they used dogs. Wilderness search and rescues are performed routinely here and LE & F&G know how to do them competently. Missing her or her body is highly unlikely, despite being a popular explanation.
The presence of the river gave me pause. I have no idea and googling didn't help me as to whether it was frozen at that time. If the river weren't frozen, there's a possibility she ended up in the water and quickly became hypothermic and drowned. I also couldn't google any info about whether the river was dragged if it was still open. There are 2 small ponds in that triangle but given the weather records that I was able to find, they were almost certainly frozen solidly, and she would have had to cross a road to get to them.
Finally, all of Rte 112 runs through Bath and Landaff, except for the one curve where Maura had her accident. That curve swings south into Haverhill. In order to reach that curve, the Haverhill police would have to go through Bath. Bath and Landaff currently have populations of 1000 and 400, have no police depts. of their own, and are covered by the NH State Police. All this blame directed at the Haverhill Police Dept is nuts as all they were responsible for is the very short stretch of road where her car was found. I'd like to hear from the head of the investigation in the State Police, particularly about the forensics and the investigation into possible destinations around the resorts and who she might be meeting there. We still haven't heard about the guy she was having the affair with either.
I live about 30 miles from where her car was found. I had nothing better to do this week and I hadn't been there in a while, so I drove over there and looked around.
<snip>
This re-sparked something that I've long believed is a 'filter' through which that evening's events should pass to a certain degree.
2004. This is pre-facebook. Pre SMS (for the most part). Pre-smartphone. Sketchy service in general and especially so in rural NH.
If Maura was driving up there to clear her head for a couple days and possibly/probably meeting friends up there, it's not easy for them all to stay in touch with each other and keep track of travel progress. We really have to put ourselves back then, and realize that to pull off a rendezvous or tandem driver was not a cinch like it would be just 13 years later.
What does it matter? Maybe not a lot. But let's say if the red truck means anything, it would explain the doubling back. And it could also explain the extra 45-60 minutes in Maura's drive to Haverhill from Amherst as possibly her driving back or waiting for someone or trying to get cell service, etc.
What does it matter? Maybe not a lot. But let's say if the red truck means anything, it would explain the doubling back. And it could also explain the extra 45-60 minutes in Maura's drive to Haverhill from Amherst as possibly her driving back or waiting for someone or trying to get cell service, etc.
IF the red truck wasn't that of a stranger, wouldn't her known associates have been discovered by now, and weren't there call logs back then so they could determine who she talked to if plans were made. They know she contacted the owner of the cabin where she stayed previously with her family, and a hotel about reserving a room though she never stayed.
This re-sparked something that I've long believed is a 'filter' through which that evening's events should pass to a certain degree.
2004. This is pre-facebook. Pre SMS (for the most part). Pre-smartphone. Sketchy service in general and especially so in rural NH.
If Maura was driving up there to clear her head for a couple days and possibly/probably meeting friends up there, it's not easy for them all to stay in touch with each other and keep track of travel progress. We really have to put ourselves back then, and realize that to pull off a rendezvous or tandem driver was not a cinch like it would be just 13 years later.
What does it matter? Maybe not a lot. But let's say if the red truck means anything, it would explain the doubling back. And it could also explain the extra 45-60 minutes in Maura's drive to Haverhill from Amherst as possibly her driving back or waiting for someone or trying to get cell service, etc.
Anyway, just a couple extra thoughts.
Those are good points, but I don't think cell service is a requirement for tandem driving. We still don't have cell service in my northern NH town, and people can follow each other along the roads just fine. We manage it all the time.
You reminded me of the unaccounted for 45-60 mins. Those investigators just took the most convenient route to Haverhill and assumed that Maura did the same, which may or may not be true. AFAIK, we have no documentation of Maura's route between the liquor store in Amherst and the crash site in Haverhill. Since they've reviewed the video tape in the supermarket and determined that Maura was not on it, we don't even know if she drove through the main business area of Haverhill. Everyone has made an assumption that she was traveling east on 112. She could have taken a different route entirely for completely unknown reasons (aimless drunken driving, or a previous wrong turn and attempt to get back to 302?) and been traveling west on 112, eliminating the unaccounted time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyesidid
IF the red truck wasn't that of a stranger, wouldn't her known associates have been discovered by now, and weren't there call logs back then so they could determine who she talked to if plans were made. They know she contacted the owner of the cabin where she stayed previously with her family, and a hotel about reserving a room though she never stayed.
I think she went solo.
I believe her friends (Kate and Sara) have been uncooperative about talking with police.
All this blame directed at the Haverhill Police Dept is nuts as all they were responsible for is the very short stretch of road where her car was found. I'd like to hear from the head of the investigation in the State Police, particularly about the forensics and the investigation into possible destinations around the resorts and who she might be meeting there. We still haven't heard about the guy she was having the affair with either.
Good offering of thoughts and thanks for visiting the site. I'm in CA and used to LE being more forthcoming especially through media accounts.
When you refer to the "curve' of the road being Haverville, would that include the intersection at Bradley Hill where her scent trail ended?
Bradley Hill Road is the town line between Haverhill and Bath, then the road continues into Benton. Look at Haverhill on Google maps and zoom in on Route 112. If you zoom way in and use street view, you can even see the blue ribbon on the tree near the accident site. All of these towns, except Haverhill which is merely small, are tiny and covered by the NH State Police.
I think the track coach had an alibi for the night she disappeared, but could he have been planning to meet her somewhere several days later? And what does he know about her state of mind?
Those are good points, but I don't think cell service is a requirement for tandem driving. We still don't have cell service in my northern NH town, and people can follow each other along the roads just fine. We manage it all the time.
You reminded me of the unaccounted for 45-60 mins. Those investigators just took the most convenient route to Haverhill and assumed that Maura did the same, which may or may not be true. AFAIK, we have no documentation of Maura's route between the liquor store in Amherst and the crash site in Haverhill. Since they've reviewed the video tape in the supermarket and determined that Maura was not on it, we don't even know if she drove through the main business area of Haverhill. Everyone has made an assumption that she was traveling east on 112. She could have taken a different route entirely for completely unknown reasons (aimless drunken driving, or a previous wrong turn and attempt to get back to 302?) and been traveling west on 112, eliminating the unaccounted time.
Agreed that cell service isn't necessary, but still think that some are better than others back then at following or meeting up with others without being able to communicate inter-car. I was REALLY good at it, but I also recall spending some times doubling back or waiting for someone who had fallen behind.
I also think you hit on another related likelihood. I think Maura didn't exactly have clear plans when she left Amherst other than head north. I think she was aimlessly driving to a large degree, toward an area she knew moderately well. I think she probably had designs to try and meet up with someone (or more) later but had not fully formed plans. That could explain the Londonderry ping, for instance.
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