11-10-2010, 09:00 AM
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Regarding whether or not a city or any large body of people can be called racist, or any other thing:
Every culture has every possible kind of person in it, good, bad, or other. But different cultures allow or reward some traits, and discourage or punish others. Some communities do let the racists and rude people among them get away with a lot more than other communities do.
When I lived in the Bay Area, I was not happy, because the culture there put huge peer pressure on people to choose a side and act rude/intolerant to anybody not on that side (politics, race, religion, hobby-groups, support-groups, you name it, almost all of them had a n us VS them attitude.) This made me miserable, because I can usually see something beautiful in all groups, and had friends of all persuasions, and did not fit any single category neatly, and got a lot of grief over my non-alignment.
Tucson culture, I find, has a high tolerance for quirkiness and even rewards it. It rewards kindliness and helpfulness. Everytime I give anything, whether in things or acts, people fall all over themselves to give me twice as much back. Parents rebuke rudeness sternly at an early age, and the kids grow up polite.
Unfortunately, politicians have discovered that whipping up fear over the border wins votes and campaign contributions, mostly from outside of Tucson. This in turn sends a message encouraging racism within Tucson that didn't used to be there. The number of racists probably hasn't changed, but they can come out of the closet now, and act where once they had to refrain.
11-10-2010, 09:10 AM
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Regarding Lemon&Lime:
I've met trolls, and I don't think you're necessarily a troll, but rather somebody who's been hurt and now reacts so defensively that it can provoke the very behavior you hope to avoid. I think you could have asked the same question in a way that would have gotten a more thoughtful response, rather than an angry, reactive one. Instead of asking, "how judgemental, rude, meanspirited and racist is Tucson?" you could have asked, "How tolerant, courteous, and kindly is Tucson? And how safe are people of color here?" If people had not found Tucsonans tolerant, courteous, or kindly, they would have told you just as readily, but nobody would feel accused of anything, judged ahead of time. And you could still find out whether or not a person of color could find living here comfortable. Also, saying that you don't expect anyone to answer you means that you yourself have passed judgment, and assume ahead of time that none of us are honest. And then when some people react angrily to this, you can say, "See, I told you so!" But dishonesty didn't make them bridle, rather being judged without evidence.
It's okay--I've lived through that tangle, myself. The more I got hurt, the more defensive I became, the more I got hurt. I finally learned that if I regard myself as a Weirdo Outcast, people will treat me like a Weirdo Outcast, but if I act like a Loveable Eccentric, people will treat me like a Loveable Eccentric. I can still be true to who I am, but my expectations of others makes a world of difference in how they treat me.
11-10-2010, 04:23 PM
Location: Albuquerque
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More of what I was looking for.
I'm not accusing Tucson of anything, just wondering based on my 10+ years of experience in New Mexico.
^^ As per the poster who assumed I am a "loveable eccentric", thanks for judging me without even ever having met me. Good job!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dreamdeer
My experience, as brown-skinned and eccentric lady, until recently has been positive. (I am Indian of a Mexican tribe by ancestry, and it shows.) I'll take your question section by section:
JUDGMENTALNESS: I have encountered none, though I suppose that it depends on what company you keep. I can go to the bank or to church with flowers and leaves braided into my hair and get nothing but friendly smiles. Where I go to church, some of the churchladies have tattoos, and the song-leader often wears a bandanna with skulls and crossbones on it, and nobody bats an eye. I have heard very little, over the years, of anybody speculating on anybody's sins (maybe a little in the New Age community, but mild.)
RUDENESS: I have found everybody amazingly polite! No one here has ever directed a racist remark to my face, whereas strangers used to do a lot of that to me in California, particularly (surprise, surprise!) the Bay Area which is supposed to be so liberal. People have a live-and-let-live attitude around here, on the whole. And I am continually amazed at how kind and considerate, even deferential, young people act towards gray-haired folk like me.
MEANSPIRITEDNESS: Obviously somebody is, judging by recent election results, but I think you'll find it mainly among wealthy old retirees and tea-party types. On the whole, people go out of their way to help each other out. And when I first arrived here some five years ago, there was a big hullaballoo about the border patrol arresting a couple people for rushing some dehydrated (nearly dead) illegal border crossers to a hospital, whereupon everywhere you looked you saw signs saying, "Humanitarian Aid is Not a Crime!" on lawns, in business windows, in front of churches, on the sides of contractor's panel-trucks, on lapel-pins, bumper-stickers, everywhere!
RACISM: It didn't used to be. As I said, I found a lot less racism here than I did in California...initially. Now the politicians have discovered that they can use Mexicans for a human shield to distract people from their own shortcomings, and have whipped up all manner of fear of "illegal aliens" AKA brown-skinned people who might possibly look like a non-citizen, with the result that lots of Mexicans and Indians get all kinds of harrassment even without SB1070 in operation. Fear breeds hatred.
Yet even saying that, in a huge rally to oppose SB1070, I saw a whole lot of white people marching shoulder to shoulder with brown folks. Tucson is probably one of the most liberal cities in Arizona, and there are a lot of good people here. I just wish the bad people weren't the ones in power, getting all the campaign funding. Because if 9 people out of 10 are good, it still takes only one bully to ruin your day or your life--and he'll only act if he thinks the folks in power will be just a little bit slower to defend certain people, slow enough for him to get away with it.
So that's the most honest assessment I can come up with. I hope it helps.
11-11-2010, 05:32 AM
Location: Southern Arizona
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Did you even read the responses? The same poster you commended for answering in a way you were looking for was also the one who you say assumed you were a lovable eccentric.
LOL.
-Subie2
11-11-2010, 07:20 AM
Location: Tucson
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I guess we can call her a lemon with lime juice in her eyes, since she does not pay attention to what she reads, maybe due to the anger she holds inside!!
I am also a naturalized south american living in Tucson for the past almost 30 years and I have found the people from Tucson to be very friendly and hospitable, however there are many people from Alburquerque, New Mexico living here too and I do not notice any difference!!
11-11-2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
lemon&lime
People won't want to respond to this thread. That's OK. I'm not asking this question to push any buttons, accuse anyone of anything, or assume anything. I'm open minded and believe that all places have plusses. I would not assume Tucson was a bad place. I live in Albuquerque and have grown tired of the constant judgemental, holier-than-thou attitudes. The area is also rough with a lot of mean spirited people who say rude things, etc. I'm tired of having my feelings hurt by total strangers. I know people say there are mean people everywhere but in my opinion Albuquerque is meaner and more racist than other places I've lived.
from your description of albuquerque, it sounds like you live in the south east section of the city, and i never liked going in that area when i was there. i preferred the north east or north west sections.
tucson is a much better place to live than albuquerque is, nicer people, and friendlier overall. i will suggest though that if you come here, leave all your old negative baggage behind.
11-11-2010, 10:57 AM
Location: Texas
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My only (and sadly, lasting) impression of Tucson was when I was driving through it to get to Phoenix for work. I stopped at 4 different gas stations along the highway and was told repeatedly that I would not be allowed to use the restroom. I'd never heard of such a thing. This was in 2004...what is up with that? Is that like a city-wide ordinance or something? I would have gladly bought something, but that's just not how we roll in Texas.
11-11-2010, 11:17 AM
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Texas, huh? They were probably worried you'd track in cow poop from your boots.
11-11-2010, 11:48 AM
Location: Tucson
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Lemon&lime, I can understand your asking this. My wife is Brazilian but most think she is Mexican. Not that it matters, but here especially in our town people are generally not very nice to non-whites. This is unfortunate.
Simple encounters at our kids school are vastly different when my wife goes along verses us going together. It is obvious disrespect. The same holds true to many neighbors. We have neighbors that will turn their backs when my wife walks outside but will wave to me. I find that sick.
Is everyone here like that? No. but I find that there is a distinct difference in people, in general, in different areas in the country. Here (Chicago suburbs) people tend to be closed, not very friendly, short, and always in a terrible hurry.
It almost seems as though if they say "hi" to you it would be a favor and you will be owed something.
I think you will find this in pockets anywhere. However, we did not experience anything like that in Tucson. In fact, we were caught off guard by the opposite. Everyone there were very friendly and we didn't experience the slightest bit of negativity. This is one of the reasons that we are anxious to move to Tucson.
It is easy to get discouraged by your surroundings and the people as well. Sometimes so much that you end up adding to it. Because of this your actions can attract more of what you dislike so much.
11-11-2010, 10:45 PM
Location: West of the Catalinas East of the Tortolitas
4,922 posts, read
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I have a really good friend who lives near Menaul and Wyoming near Sandia High School. She's Caucasian, her husband is Hispanic. They've lived in their neighborhood for over 30 years and have always been treated with respect. They have three kids and they're both exceptionally educated. We have been visiting Albuquerque for many years to see them and other friends. Mostly we stay near I-25 and Menaul area at what was the Holiday Inn, now the Elegante. We have been all over Albuquerque and have never found it to be exclusional.
I think you're trying to start a discussion about intolerance, racism and other facets that most of us here really don't want to get into. You need to find another board to start that fight. Try Bridgeport, CT.
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Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)