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Old 11-10-2010, 09:00 AM
 
17 posts, read 43,691 times
Reputation: 46

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Regarding whether or not a city or any large body of people can be called racist, or any other thing:

Every culture has every possible kind of person in it, good, bad, or other. But different cultures allow or reward some traits, and discourage or punish others. Some communities do let the racists and rude people among them get away with a lot more than other communities do.

When I lived in the Bay Area, I was not happy, because the culture there put huge peer pressure on people to choose a side and act rude/intolerant to anybody not on that side (politics, race, religion, hobby-groups, support-groups, you name it, almost all of them had a n us VS them attitude.) This made me miserable, because I can usually see something beautiful in all groups, and had friends of all persuasions, and did not fit any single category neatly, and got a lot of grief over my non-alignment.

Tucson culture, I find, has a high tolerance for quirkiness and even rewards it. It rewards kindliness and helpfulness. Everytime I give anything, whether in things or acts, people fall all over themselves to give me twice as much back. Parents rebuke rudeness sternly at an early age, and the kids grow up polite.

Unfortunately, politicians have discovered that whipping up fear over the border wins votes and campaign contributions, mostly from outside of Tucson. This in turn sends a message encouraging racism within Tucson that didn't used to be there. The number of racists probably hasn't changed, but they can come out of the closet now, and act where once they had to refrain.

 
Old 11-10-2010, 09:10 AM
 
17 posts, read 43,691 times
Reputation: 46
Regarding Lemon&Lime:

I've met trolls, and I don't think you're necessarily a troll, but rather somebody who's been hurt and now reacts so defensively that it can provoke the very behavior you hope to avoid. I think you could have asked the same question in a way that would have gotten a more thoughtful response, rather than an angry, reactive one. Instead of asking, "how judgemental, rude, meanspirited and racist is Tucson?" you could have asked, "How tolerant, courteous, and kindly is Tucson? And how safe are people of color here?" If people had not found Tucsonans tolerant, courteous, or kindly, they would have told you just as readily, but nobody would feel accused of anything, judged ahead of time. And you could still find out whether or not a person of color could find living here comfortable. Also, saying that you don't expect anyone to answer you means that you yourself have passed judgment, and assume ahead of time that none of us are honest. And then when some people react angrily to this, you can say, "See, I told you so!" But dishonesty didn't make them bridle, rather being judged without evidence.

It's okay--I've lived through that tangle, myself. The more I got hurt, the more defensive I became, the more I got hurt. I finally learned that if I regard myself as a Weirdo Outcast, people will treat me like a Weirdo Outcast, but if I act like a Loveable Eccentric, people will treat me like a Loveable Eccentric. I can still be true to who I am, but my expectations of others makes a world of difference in how they treat me.
 
Old 11-10-2010, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque
2,296 posts, read 6,274,041 times
Reputation: 1114
More of what I was looking for. I'm not accusing Tucson of anything, just wondering based on my 10+ years of experience in New Mexico.

^^ As per the poster who assumed I am a "loveable eccentric", thanks for judging me without even ever having met me. Good job!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamdeer View Post
My experience, as brown-skinned and eccentric lady, until recently has been positive. (I am Indian of a Mexican tribe by ancestry, and it shows.) I'll take your question section by section:

JUDGMENTALNESS: I have encountered none, though I suppose that it depends on what company you keep. I can go to the bank or to church with flowers and leaves braided into my hair and get nothing but friendly smiles. Where I go to church, some of the churchladies have tattoos, and the song-leader often wears a bandanna with skulls and crossbones on it, and nobody bats an eye. I have heard very little, over the years, of anybody speculating on anybody's sins (maybe a little in the New Age community, but mild.)

RUDENESS: I have found everybody amazingly polite! No one here has ever directed a racist remark to my face, whereas strangers used to do a lot of that to me in California, particularly (surprise, surprise!) the Bay Area which is supposed to be so liberal. People have a live-and-let-live attitude around here, on the whole. And I am continually amazed at how kind and considerate, even deferential, young people act towards gray-haired folk like me.

MEANSPIRITEDNESS: Obviously somebody is, judging by recent election results, but I think you'll find it mainly among wealthy old retirees and tea-party types. On the whole, people go out of their way to help each other out. And when I first arrived here some five years ago, there was a big hullaballoo about the border patrol arresting a couple people for rushing some dehydrated (nearly dead) illegal border crossers to a hospital, whereupon everywhere you looked you saw signs saying, "Humanitarian Aid is Not a Crime!" on lawns, in business windows, in front of churches, on the sides of contractor's panel-trucks, on lapel-pins, bumper-stickers, everywhere!

RACISM: It didn't used to be. As I said, I found a lot less racism here than I did in California...initially. Now the politicians have discovered that they can use Mexicans for a human shield to distract people from their own shortcomings, and have whipped up all manner of fear of "illegal aliens" AKA brown-skinned people who might possibly look like a non-citizen, with the result that lots of Mexicans and Indians get all kinds of harrassment even without SB1070 in operation. Fear breeds hatred.

Yet even saying that, in a huge rally to oppose SB1070, I saw a whole lot of white people marching shoulder to shoulder with brown folks. Tucson is probably one of the most liberal cities in Arizona, and there are a lot of good people here. I just wish the bad people weren't the ones in power, getting all the campaign funding. Because if 9 people out of 10 are good, it still takes only one bully to ruin your day or your life--and he'll only act if he thinks the folks in power will be just a little bit slower to defend certain people, slow enough for him to get away with it.

So that's the most honest assessment I can come up with. I hope it helps.
 
Old 11-11-2010, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
532 posts, read 1,175,173 times
Reputation: 568
Did you even read the responses? The same poster you commended for answering in a way you were looking for was also the one who you say assumed you were a lovable eccentric.

LOL.

-Subie2
 
Old 11-11-2010, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Tucson
124 posts, read 268,381 times
Reputation: 123
I guess we can call her a lemon with lime juice in her eyes, since she does not pay attention to what she reads, maybe due to the anger she holds inside!!

I am also a naturalized south american living in Tucson for the past almost 30 years and I have found the people from Tucson to be very friendly and hospitable, however there are many people from Alburquerque, New Mexico living here too and I do not notice any difference!!
 
Old 11-11-2010, 10:54 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,745,522 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemon&lime View Post
People won't want to respond to this thread. That's OK. I'm not asking this question to push any buttons, accuse anyone of anything, or assume anything. I'm open minded and believe that all places have plusses. I would not assume Tucson was a bad place. I live in Albuquerque and have grown tired of the constant judgemental, holier-than-thou attitudes. The area is also rough with a lot of mean spirited people who say rude things, etc. I'm tired of having my feelings hurt by total strangers. I know people say there are mean people everywhere but in my opinion Albuquerque is meaner and more racist than other places I've lived.
from your description of albuquerque, it sounds like you live in the south east section of the city, and i never liked going in that area when i was there. i preferred the north east or north west sections.

tucson is a much better place to live than albuquerque is, nicer people, and friendlier overall. i will suggest though that if you come here, leave all your old negative baggage behind.
 
Old 11-11-2010, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,216,996 times
Reputation: 73924
My only (and sadly, lasting) impression of Tucson was when I was driving through it to get to Phoenix for work. I stopped at 4 different gas stations along the highway and was told repeatedly that I would not be allowed to use the restroom. I'd never heard of such a thing. This was in 2004...what is up with that? Is that like a city-wide ordinance or something? I would have gladly bought something, but that's just not how we roll in Texas.
 
Old 11-11-2010, 11:17 AM
 
13,168 posts, read 21,762,237 times
Reputation: 14056
Texas, huh? They were probably worried you'd track in cow poop from your boots.
 
Old 11-11-2010, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Tucson
522 posts, read 1,566,298 times
Reputation: 705
Lemon&lime, I can understand your asking this. My wife is Brazilian but most think she is Mexican. Not that it matters, but here especially in our town people are generally not very nice to non-whites. This is unfortunate.

Simple encounters at our kids school are vastly different when my wife goes along verses us going together. It is obvious disrespect. The same holds true to many neighbors. We have neighbors that will turn their backs when my wife walks outside but will wave to me. I find that sick.

Is everyone here like that? No. but I find that there is a distinct difference in people, in general, in different areas in the country. Here (Chicago suburbs) people tend to be closed, not very friendly, short, and always in a terrible hurry.
It almost seems as though if they say "hi" to you it would be a favor and you will be owed something.

I think you will find this in pockets anywhere. However, we did not experience anything like that in Tucson. In fact, we were caught off guard by the opposite. Everyone there were very friendly and we didn't experience the slightest bit of negativity. This is one of the reasons that we are anxious to move to Tucson.

It is easy to get discouraged by your surroundings and the people as well. Sometimes so much that you end up adding to it. Because of this your actions can attract more of what you dislike so much.
 
Old 11-11-2010, 10:45 PM
 
Location: West of the Catalinas East of the Tortolitas
4,922 posts, read 8,551,477 times
Reputation: 8044
I have a really good friend who lives near Menaul and Wyoming near Sandia High School. She's Caucasian, her husband is Hispanic. They've lived in their neighborhood for over 30 years and have always been treated with respect. They have three kids and they're both exceptionally educated. We have been visiting Albuquerque for many years to see them and other friends. Mostly we stay near I-25 and Menaul area at what was the Holiday Inn, now the Elegante. We have been all over Albuquerque and have never found it to be exclusional.

I think you're trying to start a discussion about intolerance, racism and other facets that most of us here really don't want to get into. You need to find another board to start that fight. Try Bridgeport, CT.
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