We don't need no highways (Phoenix, Tucson: middle-class, sales, renters)

[waterisgone]

We don't want/need highways but we got a Trolley!

Bashing the Trolley in Downtown Tucson is like shooting fish in a barrel. But I'd like to hear a reasoned approach for the inability of the city to pay for adequate street maintenance yet somehow funded THE Trolley. Was federal money used for that fit of vanity?
Do the taxes for street maintenance come from a general fund from property taxes, sales taxes, gasoline tax???
Are these taxes in theory spread evenly throughout the city for service?

[rbohm]

yes federal money was used to finance that massive boondoggle known as the trolley. and the worst is yet to come. the first year they are expecting $300,000 in revenues, and $4,000,000 in annual operating expenses, which comes out of the general fund. for the amount of money spent on this stupid project, the city could have added several small buses with special routes to dot eh same thing, and then use the rest of the money to repair the roads. buts thats what happens when you get a bunch of california style democrats running the city and country governments, crap.

[RichCapeCod]

Forgive my ignorance but is the trolley now in operation? I'm in Green Valley and would like to take a "ride" on it, just because.

Rich

[azdr0710]

it will open to the public next summer.....

Sun Link - The Tucson Streetcar

[waterisgone]

It just occurred to me this trolley is going to serve an overwhelming crowd of 20+/- year olds and some tourists. These kids are going to walk after the novelty wears off. This is the desert. Summer clothes. Long evening strolls. Bar hopping. This is worse than a mere boondoggle. It is a nearly criminal waste of taxpayer money.
This trolley has the immense ego of the University stamped all over it. Rest of the city taxpayers' be damned.

I am a Democrat. It may not be entirely untrue that our city and University leadership has a left leaning bent. I hope then that these 'Leaders' and decision makers understand why the left is so vilified by the right. Seems plain as day and not undeserved. The Trolley falls under the rube of progress, I'm sure.

[Scottay]

I feel sorry for you guys. Our (Phoenix) Light Rail was long overdue and is packed with riders day and night but I just dont see how a trolley or light rail would benefit you guys particularly since Tucson is so anti growth and development anyway. An east/west parkway is really what you guys need. If you could turn Speedway into a parkway that'd be good.

[waterisgone]

Originally Posted by Scottay

I feel sorry for you guys. Our (Phoenix) Light Rail was long overdue and is packed with riders day and night but I just dont see how a trolley or light rail would benefit you guys particularly since Tucson is so anti growth and development anyway. An east/west parkway is really what you guys need. If you could turn Speedway into a parkway that'd be good.

Absolutely correct. But it will never develop. This is a silly mostly irrelevant city that thinks it has charm to preserve at the expense and detriment to it's citizens outside the city core. Sort of like an adolescent that refused to grow up.
It isn't a city that likes to recognize there are blue collar wage earners that would like a slice of the pie too and a better transportation system to get around the sprawl.

[sownman]

Tucson is lucky, try the California bullet train from LA to San Fran for $42 billion.

Turns out it would really cost about $110 billion, be an hour slower at best than an airplane if it were really high speed the whole way, but it won't be. It will be standard train speed at least 1/3 of the way because it will have stations to stop at. Even if it were really were only $42billion you could give every man woman and child in San Fran and LA area 6 round trip airfares for less money. For most this would be a lifetime supply.

This doesn't yet address the fact that the trains will carry fewer people per day at higher cost per head than the current aircraft schedule nor does it take into account maintainance costs as the years go by and retirement fund costs for a new growing group of government employees.

Thats why I'm moving to Tucson a $4 mil boondoggle beats the heck out of a $100billion one.

[tumamoc]

Originally Posted by rbohm

for the amount of money spent on this stupid project, the city could have added several small buses with special routes to dot eh same thing, and then use the rest of the money to repair the roads.

No one gets excited about riding a bus. Unless, of course, it's a double-decker, or maybe amphibious. But I do think the trolley will be a big draw for tourism and downtown living. Indirectly, it could be a boon for the City in the long run. I don't have any plans to use it myself.

No argument here about the condition of the roads. Regarding money for road repair, however, I think next time around, renters should share some of the burden, instead of just dipping into the homeowners' pockets.

And bigger picture east-west highway, I think that ship sailed a long time ago.

[Marv101]

A good friend of mine who moved from Orange County to Tucson (Kolb/Sunrise) in 2008 absolutely loves the city, since traffic is a cakewalk compared to LA & OC. I've driven from LA to Tucson four times in the past five years, and was amazed at how much better shape your roads are in, as well as much cheaper everything, from gasoline to groceries to housing and everything else.

While the idea of a parkway from west to east along Speedway or Broadway makes some sense, the screaming which would result from folks having their homes bulldozed would be deafening, so I can see why it never came to pass.

I also agree about California's so-called 'bullet train', which won't come remotely close to the projected annual ridership level of 35,000,000, as opposed to the 37,000,000 who pass through Penn Station in NYC every year; talk about cooking the books--even Bernie Madoff ain't that good!

With well over 500 weekly flight from LA, Burbank or Santa Ana to the Bay area every week for $98 roundtrip, the 'Moonbeam Express' is bound to be a huge failure.

But when you have a bunch of uber-extreme SF-area liberals running the state, it's no wonder that over 3,500,000 folks have left the state in which 25% of its residents live in poverty for other places where the middle class has a shot of having a productive and enjoyable middle-class life.