Do you feel nestled in? Does Tucson feel more middle class?

[actinic]

Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl

In fact, only 16.6% of Pima Co. residents are over 65 and in the city of Tucson it drops to 12% (probably due to the presence of the university and the higher proportion of Latino residents). That 16% is EXACTLY the same as the percentage in Allegheny Co., PA, where I lived before I moved here. And while that's hardly the epicenter of hipsterism, I never perceived Allegheny Co. as having nearly the number of retirement communities Pima Co. has.

Don't confuse residents with inhabitants. The roughly 5 month snowbird season brings in huge numbers of the 65+ segment who aren't residents. If they were included in those stats, I could see that % easily hitting 25%. Once they have the good sense to escape, those who remain as a proportion of the total population should be pretty much in line with elsewhere.

Also, since their buying power is so much greater than the typical lower income resident, the town has a definite cyclical vibe ... active in winter, pretty much dead in the summer. Not exactly the foundation for a robust, 12 month economy. That's a bunch of people using services but not paying property taxes.

[actinic]

Originally Posted by borregokid

The housing market really collapsed in Tucson compared to Alburquerque and that tells you there wasnt much underlying growth except building houses. Tucson home prices fell from $196,000 to average $108,000 while Alburquerque only fell from $195,000 to $176,000. The market has recovered some but their are still a lot of bargains out there and Tucson is cheaper than Alburquerque.

That's a very perceptive observation. The drop in housing prices and subsequent bounce is a good indicator of underlying economic strength and diversity. While an increasing number of metro areas are now at price levels exceeding the real estate implosion, Tucson isn't close. This doesn't bode well during the next cycle. Any flippers are well advised to get out quickly.

[AZFLHigh]

Th

Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl

I would dispute a few of these statements with facts that don't bear them out. First, the Census Bureau lists the 2012 population of all of PIMA COUNTY as 992,394, and remember that's fewer than a million people spread out over an area the size of the entire STATE OF CONNECTICUT. So, no, "Tucson" does not have "over 1,000,000 people" and no one coming here would perceive that. The population of the City of Tucson (2012) was 524,295.

There is,indeed, a nice mix of cultures here. I live in a close-in suburb and we have white, Latino, and African American people owning homes in my subdivision. I personally find the Native American and Latino cultural influences to be interesting, just as I found the Eastern European, Irish, and Italian influences when I lived in Pittsburgh, PA, or the African-American influences when I lived in Washington, DC, interesting.

Related to the OP's question about poverty, nearly 25% of Tucson residents live BELOW the Federal poverty line. In fact, that figure is 17% for Albuquerque and 21% in Roanoke. If Albuquerque looks poorer than Tucson, it's an illusion. The median household income in Albuquerque is $47,399 compared to $36,939 in Tucson. Tucson is the poorest of the particular places under discussion here.

For example, the Tucson Unified School District has a dismal reputation and, as someone here already pointed out, has lost more than 10,000 students recently. In general, Arizonans' proclivity not to pay any more taxes than absolutely necessary results poor education from elementary school on up. The amount spent on education per student here, at every level of schooling, is MUCH lower than any place I have ever lived before. In fact, only Oklahoma, Idaho, and Utah spend less per student on public education than Arizona does, according to the U.S. Department of Education. And Arizona's spending dropped 2.3% between 2010 and 2011! New Mexico spends almost the same per-pupil as California does. Also, this area has far fewer college graduates than any place I've lived before. To me personally, the poverty of education is one of the most negative aspects of living here. And I firmly believe it's one of the major factors that will inhibit Pima County's future economic growth for anything but low-income jobs.

One of the more interesting statistics I find about Pima Co. is the age of residents. Living here, I get the idea that we have a huge number of retirees. It certainly seems to me that much of life here is geared toward our older residents. But that may just be because they are the ones with the money. In fact, only 16.6% of Pima Co. residents are over 65 and in the city of Tucson it drops to 12% (probably due to the presence of the university and the higher proportion of Latino residents). That 16% is EXACTLY the same as the percentage in Allegheny Co., PA, where I lived before I moved here. And while that's hardly the epicenter of hipsterism, I never perceived Allegheny Co. as having nearly the number of retirement communities Pima Co. has.

Our residents must not be aging in place because 20% of people in Pima Co. have lived at their current address for less than a year. Allegheny Co., PA, for comparison with an equal number of seniors, has only 13% of recent movers. That transient rate is even higher in the City of Tucson, probably because of students.

And finally, I'd like to sound a note about the friendliness of Tucsonans. No, I do not contend they are unfriendly. But friendlier than anywhere else? I've spent most of my career working with members of the public and I see generally no difference here than anywhere other place. One thing I will point out, areas with a high percentage of transient residents — not to mention places where the economy is dependent on tourists — tend to be more welcoming to newcomers and visitors than places where people have deep roots. For example, I used to live in our nation's capital, a place where thousands of people go for jobs that they believe to be temporary, be it political, military, or government employment. As a result, they are very social with other newcomers. On the other hand, Pittsburgh is filled with people who have lived there for generations and their social life is geared toward their families. People, therefore, have a much harder time making friends in Pittsburgh. I think many people who move to Tucson from far-away places move to the university community or retirement locations, both of which are filled with people willing to make friends with other newcomers. So it seems friendly. Which is great, but it doesn't mean the people here are different than elsewhere.

I have to take issue with much of what you said here. You are splitting hairs on the population, the Tucson area is 7,000 people shy of 1,000,000. All city limits are smaller in population than the area around it. Same with Orlando, 77th largest at 238,000 but the Orlando area is 2,100,000 people. 26th largest metro area. Someone looking at the Tucson area needs the bigger picture. Drive down Houghton and you will go in and out of the city limits 20 times. Splitting hairs. Yes I perceive that there is close to 1,000,000 here. It is spread out. I could site the square miles but don't care to drone on.

The 2012 USA Census reports a median income of $46,443 for the Tucson area (Pima county), Your number of $36,939 is for the years of 2008-2012 combined for the city, not the area. Of course within most city limits all stats are much worse than the suburbs. Typically many poor parts of town are downtown in most cities in the US, just fact. Lower incomes and higher crime rates. In 2013 there were 45 murders in the city of Tucson, 16 in the county.

If you have kids you need to choose a neighborhood with good schools, true any where. Tucson schools overall are miss-managed. There are top schools in Tucson, OK the Tucson area to be specific. Location, location, location.

As far as friendliness, that is highly subjective and cannot be explained by a supposed transient population that has a desperate need to meet people or make friends. I have lived in many cities in the world and Tucson is pretty awesome. Go to the Ritz and the staff is very nice, go to Walmart very friendly. A hole in the wall diner, great friendly folks. Meet people in the streets, they are friendly. It is a different atmosphere here. Simply observations and in places that do not cater to the tourists. We don't even notice tourists here.

There are great festivals just about every weekend. There is energy, there is community caring about each other. It is a town, or Tucson area if you choose to correct me. Driving around no one is really looking to see if they are in the city limits or not. If you leave the city limits, still looks like Tucson.

Tucson is a special place. I place my reputation on it!

[juanwilly]

Well stated!

[travelladee]

I agree. I'm considering relocating to the area vs returning to Phoenix. I like the small town feel and the "hippie" vibe I seem to pick up on. I've lived in several states CA, NV, NC, GA, DC and I must say I love the west coast I like Phoenix but Tucson feels more cozy like the city of Maricopa, AZ which I lived for 6 months. I have 2 kids and as a single mom education is important so finding the right area with the better school is going to be my biggest challenge as my kids are used to diversity. Overall the statement about Tucson being a "special" place I also must agree. Anywhere you live is what you make it.

[Saguarogirl507]

I agree as well that people are very friendly here. This is my 5th year coming for vacation and every time I come, leaving gets harder and harder. This year we are here visiting for two weeks and I have done more socializing than the past two years at home in Boston. I love it here and look forward to the day when I can stay.