Grant and Alvernon intersection........ (Tucson, Catalina: 2013, apartment, violent crime)

[azdr0710]

with apologies to 'rizo, I'm wondering what makes the Grant/Alvernon intersection the MOST DIFFICULT GO**AMN intersection to drive through.........

it's been this way for years and there are always pedestrians all over, perenially crossing, holding up right-turners and there's only one other thru-lane....

I'm certainly not against pedestrians and walking and I do it all the time....

main wonder is why THIS crossing gets so much pedestrian traffic - ALL THE TIME???.....not making assumptions, but I've heard there are several halfway houses and public housing complexes in the area there....true?....and the two food stores there draw lots of shoppers, I suppose......

[Ritchie_az]

It's a terrible intersection, but the worst? I think there must be 25 or 30 that are just as bad, if not worse. But I digress....

I think it's the location that makes it bad. It's about in the middle of Tucson (east to west) and the Rillito River forces traffic through that intersection. There's also a fair amount of shopping/businesses there, as well.

[actinic]

Yes, there's many drug and alcoholic rehab centers in the area plus tons of lower income residents without cars.

[miamiman]

There are quite a few multi-unit apartment buildings in the area. If you live in one of those apartment buildings, it doesn't really make much sense to walk to Fry's or the Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market. There also seem to be a lot of school aged children during the afternoon who catch the buses that go down both Grant and Alvernon respectively.

It doesn't help that there is no dedicated right turn lane. That would clear an extreme amount of the congestion out of the intersection. I guess the intersection was there well before there was a Fry's or Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market.

Hopefully the intersection will become easier after Grant is widened in 2011 or 2012.

[Chorizo]

I've lived near this intersection for nearly my entire life.

There is only one halfway house that I knew operated in that area for sure, and it is now gone. I am sure there could be others, but I am not aware of them.

As far as the foot traffic, it is caused by a few things, some mentioned by other posters above.
Bus lines - Lot of people ride the 9 that goes down Grant, another bunch of people ride the Alvernon bus south from there. Catalina High School - a 10 minute walk from there.

The roads Grant and Alvernon have always seen major use due to the distance they can take you. Coming from the West side you can get all the way to Kolb which takes you all the way to the south. Alvernon runs from 1-10 and now up to River. The connection to River has made it even worse. River was like the secret members only way to cross town fast - comparitively to other E-W roads. Not a lot of people used it. Now its flooded with traffic, and E bound travel has the option of dumping off at Alvernon now.

What amazes me is when I lived on the E side, in a susposedly "safer" neighborhood, I actually witnessed violent crime multiple times with my own eyes - as opposed to the Evil Grant Alvernon area - I only heard about it.

[azdr0710]

actually, the Grant widening is not supposed to start until 2013, I read....too bad....

yes, dedicated right-turn lanes would do an enormous amount to move traffic on thru the intersection....a big difference.....

I don't think anything will chance until the widening....there is no money for the city to do new work on streets, besides what is already funded....

does anybody know if the fenced housing right behind Robert's is public housing??.....several years ago, I heard about a gang called the Edith Street Posse (ESP) in that area...

[Chorizo]

As a kid, I had always heard about the Edith Street Posse. Seen their little symbols written on things. Been threatened by "members" to watch out for them, etc.

Most always it came from some punk kid who was trying to intimidate me. Never seen any actual proof that it is a real gang. They'd usually back off when I would not let it work.

As for that housing behind Roberts, not sure. I can't even picture it in my mind at the moment.

[Djbabybokchoy]

Originally Posted by Chorizo

I've lived near this intersection for nearly my entire life.

There is only one halfway house that I knew operated in that area for sure, and it is now gone. I am sure there could be others, but I am not aware of them.

As far as the foot traffic, it is caused by a few things, some mentioned by other posters above.
Bus lines - Lot of people ride the 9 that goes down Grant, another bunch of people ride the Alvernon bus south from there. Catalina High School - a 10 minute walk from there.

The roads Grant and Alvernon have always seen major use due to the distance they can take you. Coming from the West side you can get all the way to Kolb which takes you all the way to the south. Alvernon runs from 1-10 and now up to River. The connection to River has made it even worse. River was like the secret members only way to cross town fast - comparitively to other E-W roads. Not a lot of people used it. Now its flooded with traffic, and E bound travel has the option of dumping off at Alvernon now.

What amazes me is when I lived on the E side, in a susposedly "safer" neighborhood, I actually witnessed violent crime multiple times with my own eyes - as opposed to the Evil Grant Alvernon area - I only heard about it.

This.


And leave my intersection alone, I'm tired of you guys picking on it. Thankyouverymuch. It's really not that bad. I know it's scary and horrible if you're some sort of wet-behind-the-ears yuppy-type, but have some faith in your fellow man for christ's sake.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by JillBoBill

This.


And leave my intersection alone, I'm tired of you guys picking on it. Thankyouverymuch. It's really not that bad. I know it's scary and horrible if you're some sort of wet-behind-the-ears yuppy-type, but have some faith in your fellow man for christ's sake.

You don't have to be a yuppie to realize that there always seems to be an odd tension around Grant/Alvernon. I often see police cars in the Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market parking lot, either just sitting right outside of the doors, or with police officers making an arrest.

Just sitting at the light, there are a number of shady looking people crossing the street or sitting at the bus stop. No, I am not talking about regular, everyday, hard-working residents. I am talking about homeless people and transients carting all their belongings with them.

[Djbabybokchoy]

Oh, wah? You have to look at them? Geeze. Cry me a river. Oh, wah? The bus makes you ten seconds late to the golf course? Oh, wah - you saw someone get handcuffed by Wal-Mart (which, for the record, I have never seen happen and the covetted 'crime map' doesn't even show) and you don't even have to shop there because there's fifty other groceries in a ten-mile radius? WAH.


This might help: link.
"What if, for instance, we criticized birds? What if we looked up at the sky and said, "Those gulls are flying all wrong. Look at them -- they're out of formation!" Or the pelicans. Or the dogs. Or the trees, for that matter, the way they grow, so crooked and slow and uneven! What is wrong with them? Don't they know?"


P.S. You're really wet behind the ears if you're afraid of tired, worn out looking homeless people (a vast majority of whom are in wheelchairs). Wah.