Tucson in bottom 10 for business

[Spot]

Originally Posted by Grannysroost

Oh and here is a bit of the article which he did not bring up..only the headline...

"The trouble is the report by MarketWatch, a division of Dow Jones & Co. which also publishes the Wall Street Journal, is being cited for causes that have little or nothing to do with the methodology that came up with the rankings.

The rankings didn’t even consider small businesses, entrepreneurship or trying to do business with local governments."

How they come up with the statistics is important to get the overall message, right?

Absolutely right. Very good point. The article wasn't entirely negative about Tucson and it did discuss the shortcomings of the measures being used. And I agree with you that it's perfectly acceptable to challenge the data on the merits or critique the methodology. In fact, that's the entire reason to post or respond to such an article in my opinion.

I understand that there are some people on here that are extremely critical of Tucson. And I understand that there are some people who are extremely positive about Tucson. It's quite likely that neither position is entirely valid. The main difference that I see is that the people who are "negative" tend to focus on attacking Tucson and the "positive" group tends to focus on attacking the "negative" posters personally. I have seen a lot of posts by ZP and others that are really great posts. They are interesting, helpful and productive. Many are quite entertaining. But sometimes they go after other posters when it doesn't make sense to do so.

I know that I have posted many positive posts on this forum regarding the UofA, the unique things to see and do in Tucson, restaurants, the beauty of the desert, the weather in the winter, etc... But when it comes to the cities policies/economy/crime/etc..., I am definitely not a "fanboy" of Tucson. I have a lot of experience and information to back up my positions on those issues and I have no intention of backing down. I think Tucson is a great town, but there are a lot of problems. The people who ignore them and refuse to confront the problems facing the city are part of the problem, so I will counter them on this board and in any other forum available to me until the city starts to change. When it does, I will credit it for doing so. I'm not an anti-Tucson partisan. I am a pro-Tucson native who is seriously upset with the direction the city has taken. If people aren't interested in reading posts that are critical of Tucson, by all means feel free to skip the threads that offend.

If people disagree with the substance of a post, then say so and say why. Refute the negative posts with facts. If someone says the Tucson economy is doing poorly and you disagree, then put forth some empirical evidence to the contrary. Attack the issues. But those who insist on going after people personally should expect to get challenged on it.

[Grannysroost]

Originally Posted by Spot

Absolutely right. Very good point. The article wasn't entirely negative about Tucson and it did discuss the shortcomings of the measures being used. And I agree with you that it's perfectly acceptable to challenge the data on the merits or critique the methodology. In fact, that's the entire reason to post or respond to such an article in my opinion.

I understand that there are some people on here that are extremely critical of Tucson. And I understand that there are some people who are extremely positive about Tucson. It's quite likely that neither position is entirely valid. The main difference that I see is that the people who are "negative" tend to focus on attacking Tucson and the "positive" group tends to focus on attacking the "negative" posters personally. I have seen a lot of posts by ZP and others that are really great posts. They are interesting, helpful and productive. Many are quite entertaining. But sometimes they go after other posters when it doesn't make sense to do so.

I know that I have posted many positive posts on this forum regarding the UofA, the unique things to see and do in Tucson, restaurants, the beauty of the desert, the weather in the winter, etc... But when it comes to the cities policies/economy/crime/etc..., I am definitely not a "fanboy" of Tucson. I have a lot of experience and information to back up my positions on those issues and I have no intention of backing down. I think Tucson is a great town, but there are a lot of problems. The people who ignore them and refuse to confront the problems facing the city are part of the problem, so I will counter them on this board and in any other forum available to me until the city starts to change. When it does, I will credit it for doing so. I'm not an anti-Tucson partisan. I am a pro-Tucson native who is seriously upset with the direction the city has taken. If people aren't interested in reading posts that are critical of Tucson, by all means feel free to skip the threads that offend.

If people disagree with the substance of a post, then say so and say why. Refute the negative posts with facts. If someone says the Tucson economy is doing poorly and you disagree, then put forth some empirical evidence to the contrary. Attack the issues. But those who insist on going after people personally should expect to get challenged on it.

I wish I could spend more time here on this board, but only pop in and out, but I see the same on the Phoenix board...The locals do get tired of the same people coming in and posting all negative over and over and nothing positive...that in my mind is trolling to get a reaction...

I agree with what I bolded from your post. Government is a problem all over the country, it hurts when things take the opposite direction and it isn't just AZ or Tucson, or Phoenix...

When you post good and bad, it is fine in my opinion, I can't speak for the others here...there are other posters that do nothing but the negative and get attacked for that reason...it is easy to read and see who cares and who doesn't...and this is really a good post in my mind....Thanks

[Marcy1210]

Originally Posted by Spot

You mean the mayor with the 80% approval rating that's now running for Governor? You think his becoming governor will hurt CO? Really? Are you paying attention? The politicians from both parties who are planning to run to replace the mayor are phenomenally qualified. We enjoy an abundance of political leadership/talent here in Denver. It's refreshing after living in Tucson, where they are currently trying to recall council members for incompetence.

It's about the fundamentals Marcy. It's about investment, education, infrastructure, tax policy, etc... Tucson is doing nothing to address the core economic problems of the City. Tucson continues to shed jobs, talent, entrepreneurs, college grads, etc... The front page story in the Star is that McDonald's is hiring 500 people. That's a good thing? Really? The best economic news the Star can report is that McDonalds is hiring?

There is absolutely no comparison between Tucson and Denver. Denver is investing $900 million in downtown renovations on top of another $7.8 billion on light rail, on top of all the private investment in the city. Tucson can't get Rio Nuevo off the ground after 10 years. There is simply no comparison.

I am paying attention. I have been a registered voter in CO since 1971 and continue to be. I am still a legal resident of CO as my driver's license and vehicle registration is still in CO. I pay CO property taxes and my primary residence is in CO. I have paid more in property taxes to the state of Colorado over the last 40 years than many other people, and I know where every dime of my taxes goes. All my family still lives in Denver, and I visit often. So, yes, I am very well aware of what is going on in Denver and the rest of the state. I own a home in Oro Valley, AZ and have lived here as a snowbird until this past November. I am now back in CO for a couple of weeks until I go back to AZ for the last Rockie's Spring Training in Tucson. Yes, you'll go off on that, too, saying we let it slip through our hands, and yes, we did. But again, we don't have a six county tax base to pay for our city improvements, nor do we have the tax or population base that Denver has. In that respect, we're more like Colorado Springs that just relies on itself and El Paso County. You can compare Phoenix and Denver; Colroado Springs and Tucson; but not Denver and Tucson. They're two different animals, and truth be told, most Tucsonand wouldn't want the heavy, light polluting, auto polluting air spewed out by millions of cars driving on thousands of miles of highway that runs around and through the city, nor would we want a mandatory E-470 toll road going around our city.

So, don't tell me about CO politics. Also, I'm acutely aware that you cannot compare Denver and Tucson. Denver and Phoenix, maybe, but not Denver and Tucson.

So, until our fundamentals, such as education, investment, and such, lives up to Denver we will be forever it's ugly step-sister. Well, then lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges and compare Phoenix to Denver, and Tucson to Colorado Springs, or Greely or Ft. Collins, or Pueblo, or Trinidad,

When you can come up with comparable numbers that are fair for each city and present them in a logical thesis, then maybe people will listen, but as long as you go about comparing cities that can't be compared, you're not enlightening anyone in Tucson. In order to do so, you'll need to gather all the pertinent information on each city, its strengths and weaknesses, financial health, loans, notes, and other investments, then, and only then can you devise a master plan for Tucson based on the one that is working so wonderfully in Denver, and present it to our city council since you seem to kow exactly what's wrong with Tucson and how to fix it.

See ya in Denver tomorrow. I'll read the Post, The Gazette, The Pueblo Chieftan, The Ute Pass Courier, the Littleton Independent and gather my information through the people who will be directly affecred. I'm glad you are so "for" Denver, and so proud of her.

But, let me tell you, my brother and sister-in-law are college educated (UNC and CSU) have lived in Denver since birth, and have always had a really hard time finding jobs. He's and investment banker, she's a tourism director for a large hotel chain. The economy is so slow in Denver that people in hospitality are getting laid off, construction jobs for the average joe are non existent (the large construction companies bring their own workersl), so the local workforce is really hurting. Things are not as rosy in Denver as you would have us believe. At least we're honest when we say, there are very few jobs down here. Take off the rose colored glasses and see the country as it truly is. Pretty pathetic if you look around see what
is really going on in Denver.

JUHO--YMMV

[TucsonBound?]

This is just my opinion but I think Tucson is in the bottom 10 for jobs because so many people are moving here. Unlike Detroit where it just plain sucks!

[actinic]

Originally Posted by Grannysroost

I am wondering if Actinic posted that article due to being 'below Detroit' since he is in Michigan? Now if Tucson would have fared a little better, he probably would not have posted it...I do think we need the good and bad points, but he is a bitter person trolling AZ looking for a reaction from the fanboys and fangirls in my opinion, just to bait and get them stirred up

You're dead wrong, I'm quite happy, thank you! Keep up the speculation, I find it amusing.

Living part time in what was just ranked #2 in the country in livability ... and in Michigan! Tucson (less and less), San Diego, and soon Vancouver also.

[Grannysroost]

Originally Posted by actinic

You're dead wrong, I'm quite happy, thank you! Keep up the speculation, I find it amusing.

Living part time in what was just ranked #2 in the country in livability ... and in Michigan! Tucson (less and less), San Diego, and soon Vancouver also.

More power to you and whomever else...it is whatever makes you happy that is the key...some places work, some don't...I have lived in quite a few also, would I go there again, probably not, but that is me, as it is you...I do not go to MN, WY, SD, AK, ....and say how much I hate it...I did take something good from every place I have lived and do not go bad mouthing it...I say what was good, what I didn't like...I don't play on it, not worth my time as there are a lot of adventures out there. I can say where I picked for a change versus going with hubby's choice...I am very happy in AZ Cheers to ya And I am going to go against my grain and go visit kids in MN for probably about a month or so this summer, and I don't much like MN summers with the mosquitos...but they do have air and internet...so I can work there and hide out too

[Marcy1210]

I remember going to MI one August to visit my brother and his family, and my dh's aunt, uncle and cousins. 94º and what felt like 94% humidity. We were so miserable and the mosquitoes didn't help at all. It's funny because I was born in MI and lived in MI and IL until I was 12, and humidity isn't something I remembered. It was only as an adult, and many, many years away from humid places, that it became unbearable. I couldn't wait to feel the cool, dry mountain air of CO when I got home! That's another reason we chose Tucson. Low humidity, unlike FL, where so many people our age go to retire. Conversely, when those above mentioned family members come to CO or AZ to visit, they go through gallons and gallons of lotion and cases of Chap Stick. They witch and whine about how the dryness hurts their throats and makes their skin crack. Honestly, I wouldn't trade places with them if they paid off my mortgage. Wait. Well. Um, no. Not even then.

[psulions2007]

Isn't it obvious why?

1. Too Close to the dangerous border
2. Dirty downtown
3. Poor transportation
4. Phoenix steals everything