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Oklahoma is probably at or near the
bottom of teacher's pay in the country. The average teachers makes around $35,000/yr here compared to $65,000 in NJ.
My ex-wife in her 20's was making $32k as a 5th grade teacher for Tulsa Public Schools in 1997. All the teachers in the district received a big legislated raise about a year later taking her to ~$35k. I find it VERY hard to believe the average in Tulsa is only $35k in 2011.
FWIW, based on the number of days she was required to work, my ex-wife had the equivalent of 4 months off during the year. Based on only working 8 months per year, her $35k salary translated to $52k for a private sector employee who worked year round without even considering the pension benefit you don't find in the private sector.
@Erisajunkie. They're going way beyond keeping it real. Oklahoma is probably at or near the
bottom of teacher's pay in the country. The average teachers makes around $35,000/yr here compared to $65,000 in NJ. Median income in Franklin Lakes is $164,145 a year. Broken Arrow, Oklahoma's median income is $64,534. Sounds like a high rent neighborhood. I'm surprised that teachers could afford to live there. I don't know why your neighbors choose to torment you but I assure you the picture is not quite so sunny in most teacher's schools as you might think. Let's start with time off. The first 10 years of my career, my "time off" was taken up working on graduate
degrees that I needed to stay employed and to advance. Frankly the only reason I'm staying
in Oklahoma at this point is that I can start drawing a meager pension at the end of next year so
I will stick it out so that I can go do something else for a while before I get too old to have any
choices. Respect of the public? You should read some of the local blogs in the Tulsa World.
Job security? Well, if I were to get a negative review by my supervisor and I failed to meet his/her
goals for improvement, I would be terminated. It wouldn't happen until the end of the school year
because they don't want to interrupt the learning process for the kids. The only real job security is
that so few people are willing to work in an environment of near total chaos for peanuts that you
either have to be really dedicated or just plain crazy. BTW I pay $475 a month for my health care
insurance. I know people that work in private industry that pay a third or less for the same coverage, same company, etc. There's a lot about Oklahoma and education in Oklahoma that you
don't know. I bet you have a secretary and maybe even a phone that works for example so you
might want to reconsider your "guess."
Well, it's true I don't know a lot about Oklahoma and education in Oklahoma. For what's worth, the United States Department of Labor pegs the average teacher salary in 2009 at $41,053. I don't have 2010 salary stats but they do report that between 2007 and 2009 teacher salaries increased 11.11%- not bad considering the four months off a year.
I'd be interested in knowing how many teachers are actually fired for poor performance. I do know that Oklahoma is one of only two states that have trial de novo guaranteed by state law.
The state provides for a guaranteed defined benefit plan that pays a lifetime annuity indexed for inflation. That is in addition to the defined contribution IRC 403(b) plan that makes your retirement that much sweeter. You may pay into your health care plan, and that is determined by the district you work for, but it is carried into retirement.
I'm sorry you had to upgrade your skills but that is also a requirement of my job as well. I don't get time off to do it though.
I live in nice area of New Jersey. There are many teachers living here. I certainly pay enough to live here. Enough to support the salaries and benefits of the $100,000+ stipends of of teacher neighbors.
I didn't mean to start an argument here. We are ALL trying to get through this tough economy. The bottom line is we have to fix it for our children. It's time that the "private sector" and the educational community stop griping and comparing their problems. We are all in a bad situation. I do realize that I have my summers and evenings home with my children. But that is only in the past years. Many of my summers were spent working a second job in the private sector, as well, to make ends meet. I love what I do and I wouldn't change my career choice for the world. I do not complain about having to pay a chunk of my health insurance as so many of my own students go without altogether, I am willing to make less than some in higher paying fields because I have time with my own family, I am willling to expose myself to the numerous germs and illnesses in my classroom because I am making a positive difference, I am happy to further my education-required or not- because I love learning and teaching. I appreciate everyone's input. It sounds like (just as I said) its bad everywhere. I was just looking to find if there were possiblities in either location. I guess my possiblities are what I make of them.
My husband is employed with American Airlines as a mechanic and has been for 22 years. His station in Michigan was closed in September forcing him to relocated to DFW. I am still at home in Michigan with our two teenage children (15 and 13 - great time to move, huh?) to finish out the school year. While we are looking at homes in the DFW area, we are still drawn to TUL as we lived there for 9 years prior to coming to Michigan. We lived in BA and loved it. I taught school with Union as an elementary teacher while we lived there. Since coming to MI I have continued teaching and now have over 20 years of experience in T1/1st/1-2 multiage/and 4th grade. I have my master's in Early Childhood and my Bachelor's in Elementary Education. I am currently certified with my professional degree here in Michigan and have kept my Oklahoma Standard certificate updated, as well. As I said, we loved the TUL area, it had everything but we always felt like part of a community. I realize that the economy and education funding crisis has hit both the DFW and TUL areas. (We've already been dealing with it in MI for years). My question is, does anyone have any idea the reality of finding a position in either area? Will there be any to be had? Does anyone have any preferences as to which area they would suggest (Dallas vs. Tulsa). And if anyone knows anything about the situation at AA, how is the stability for the mechanics there? Thanks for any input you might have!
I don't know about AA except that I thought I heard that they were doing some hiring. My uncle got called back last month after being laid off for 5 years.
Teaching positions are slim to none. I work for one of the said districts and I know the only positions that are being filled are due to attrition. Correct me if I'm wrong more politically hip people than me, but OK HB 1017 dictates that secondary teachers run 140 per day and I've got 146. That law is being "ignored" right now to be able to staff less teachers.
I didn't mean to start an argument here. We are ALL trying to get through this tough economy. The bottom line is we have to fix it for our children. It's time that the "private sector" and the educational community stop griping and comparing their problems. We are all in a bad situation. I do realize that I have my summers and evenings home with my children. But that is only in the past years. Many of my summers were spent working a second job in the private sector, as well, to make ends meet. I love what I do and I wouldn't change my career choice for the world. I do not complain about having to pay a chunk of my health insurance as so many of my own students go without altogether, I am willing to make less than some in higher paying fields because I have time with my own family, I am willling to expose myself to the numerous germs and illnesses in my classroom because I am making a positive difference, I am happy to further my education-required or not- because I love learning and teaching. I appreciate everyone's input. It sounds like (just as I said) its bad everywhere. I was just looking to find if there were possiblities in either location. I guess my possiblities are what I make of them.
I didn't mean to start an argument here. We are ALL trying to get through this tough economy. The bottom line is we have to fix it for our children. It's time that the "private sector" and the educational community stop griping and comparing their problems. We are all in a bad situation.
Bigger tax revenues from a bustling economy are not going to solve the problems with education in America. For example, the District of Columbia is spending $20k per child, the highest in America, yet they are one of the worst performing districts in America. Michelle Rhee tried to bring real reform to their system but was forced out by unions.
If the average salary for teachers across the nation were $150k for 8 months of work, how would that raise test scores? We would STILL have the same failing system producing the same sub-par test results.
Good teachers don't need tenure protection and would make MORE money if the system rewarded merit, not years on the job. If all the great teachers in this country revolted Egyptian-style to do away with the unions and tenure and focused on improving the end result, they would be embraced by taxpayers working in the private sector.
$41,053 is a realistic figure for someone with a graduate degree and 20 years experience. Most teachers have not received step raises for several years now. You have to remember that they are
calculating and counting administrators and counselors in that average. We are contracted for
9 and one half months and that's what we are paid for. The way our pension contributions are paid
is interesting. They are deducted from our gross salary so that the school district can claim it's
paying a higher salary. There are just a few districts across Oklahoma that pay it separately.
Here are some of the things you probably have as a white collar worker that the average Oklahoma
teacher would not> stock options, a thrift plan, a secretary, a telephone, technology repair
within a short period of time, being able to go on business trips on the company's ticket, corporate
retreats, company parties, paid training, real training, access to a restroom when you need it,
a place and time to eat undisturbed, etc. If you guys think it's so wonderful, how come you're
not doing it.?
@AR Dave The 90's was a good period for competitive wages for Oklahoma teachers. However,
wages stagnated, the legislature started diverting money that had previously been directed to
teacher's salaries to other things as the lottery revenues started coming in. Those funds have never
been replaced and all efforts to lock them in at a percentage of the budget thwarted. Your wife may
have had a Ph d. or been earning additional stipends for other assignments. I can't say. My wife
has less education than I and earns twice what I do. She only gets a month off every year but she
gets to go on business trips, junkets, paid training, a whole host of things. She has a hard time understanding why she can't get me on the phone during the day and why my secretary doesn't
just hunt me down. I wouldn't mind working year round as long as I got paid for it, but since I
don't, I have to go find a summer job to make sure I earn enough to make ends meet. 52K annual
salary is on the low end of the salary scale for someone with a Master's or Phd in the corporate
world. I worked in a corporate school for several years and they did match our pension contributions
whereas in most public schools they just deduct it from your check and call it part of your total
benefit package. They do that so that they can claim that they are paying a higher salary.
@AR Dave (last post) : You know public schools are an easy target and I won't waste time trying
to convince you that most of what you're so convinced is just another "crisis" drummed up by
politicians in a effort to persuade voters that their agenda is the solution. There are of course problems with public schools across the country but starving them out and then saying "see I told
you they were bad" when they fall apart for lack of funding and support, is not a good solution.
You ask IF. That's ironic. How about investing money to hire more teachers to lower the student/
teacher ratio? Well, guess what? That's going to cost some money. When you have 50 students
packed into a room designed to hold 25, that's not a good solution.
Teachers need a measure of insulation from parents so that they can do their jobs. Otherwise
some parents will use any pretext to meddle and try to manipulate administrators or board members
to apply pressure to teachers. If you are for social promotion, go ahead and get rid of tenure.
Teachers are often among the first to speak out when they see injustice, inequity, unethical
behavior and so on not only because they are expected to be role models but because they
have the critical thinking skills to recognize and not just accept the status quo. That's what will
be lost because it will have a dampening effect.
Educational institutions are not like businesses in many ways so the one-size-fits-all approach
of running a business like a school and vice versa is really all that feasible. Would you run an
army like a day care? How about sports team franchise like a church? While there is some
common ground, they are very different.
There will probably be some jobs in hard to place areas (science, math, languages, special ed.) but
overall the schools are facing reduced budgets and layoffs. The Republican controlled legislature
is overtly hostile to public education. All teachers will be at-will employees with few if any rights
in a highly politicized environment (no more tenure, no trail de novo, temporary contracts, etc.)
Class sizes will be going from large to huge. It's looking pretty bad. Lots of us are leaving for
other states.
Hi! How funny you are here with me! We work together.
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