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Old 06-12-2012, 11:48 AM
 
Location: The State Of California
10,400 posts, read 15,499,862 times
Reputation: 4283

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Quote:
Originally Posted by okie1962 View Post
I was in Ann Arbor over the Memorial Day Weekend and decided to go into Detroit. I was shocked! It was kind of sickening to see such a great American city become what Detroit has. It looked like we had lost a war! In downtown there are tall building that looked like they had been empty for years. The old 20 story Metro train station sits empty just outside of downtown. All the windows are out of it. The part of downtown along the river was very nice but a few blocks in it looked like something terrible had happened.

Drop dead gorgeous standing right next to the ugly sisters..ugly..super ugly and last but not least sub-ugly..you got to have heart to live in a upper middle
class neighborhood with the Ghetto only three blocks away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midtown_Detroit
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:27 PM
 
Location: The State Of California
10,400 posts, read 15,499,862 times
Reputation: 4283
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepastorsson View Post
Detroit is a sad tale to tell. It's history should be a required class taken by all mayors of major and up and coming cities.

Did you happen to drive up Jefferson along the river into Grosse Pointe? Talk about jarring! One moment you are in seedy Detroit, nice areas are hit and miss...then you cross a street and are in GP, which is the absolute epitome of an upper-middle to upper class town!
Detriot isn't chopped hamburger meat it's still completing against World
Class Cities , I think that it's a Beka or Gamma Level " and Tulsa OK " is
on the Sufficiency List for future World Class Cities AKA Honorable Mention
List for World Class Cities.


http://www.diserio.com/gawc-world-cities.html
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:42 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
181 posts, read 296,233 times
Reputation: 110
Exclamation I'm not hatin'!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howest2008 View Post
Detriot isn't chopped hamburger meat it's still completing against World
Class Cities , I think that it's a Beka or Gamma Level " and Tulsa OK " is
on the Sufficiency List for future World Class Cities AKA Honorable Mention
List for World Class Cities.


GAWC World Cities - The World's Most Important Cities
Believe me, I'm not trying to belittle Detroit...not at all! But the fact remains that much damage has been done, and vast swaths of the city look nothing less than war torn. There are some amazing people in Detroit giving it all they have to rebuild it, and much has been saved, gentrified and improved. It's also true Detroit still has world class assets such as the DIA (Detroit Institute of Art) which is nothing less than spectacular.

But that list puts Detroit on the same level as San Diego, another fine city with which I'm very familiar. That's all well and good, but the fact remains that the average person driving around SD is going to see a beautiful, well-kept, and thriving city. Unfortunately, they are not, for the most part, going to see that in Detroit.

Tulsa has a very long way to go before it ever sees that level of urban decay, but I have seen that the population has declined while the suburbs have exploded. Not a good trend in the long term.

Last edited by thepastorsson; 06-13-2012 at 08:46 AM.. Reason: Derp.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:18 AM
 
1,837 posts, read 2,203,107 times
Reputation: 2452
There is no comparison that makes any sense between the two. The Detroit metro area when you add in Windsor has almost six million people, Tulsa has barely one million. The population in the city of Tulsa dropped in the early 2000s but has been growing again since the latter half of the last decade. The drop was slight too, like 2 or 3%, not the 50%+ that cities like Detroit saw.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:28 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
181 posts, read 296,233 times
Reputation: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
There is no comparison that makes any sense between the two. The Detroit metro area when you add in Windsor has almost six million people, Tulsa has barely one million. The population in the city of Tulsa dropped in the early 2000s but has been growing again since the latter half of the last decade. The drop was slight too, like 2 or 3%, not the 50%+ that cities like Detroit saw.
I'm not saying that Tulsa really compares to Detroit, being quite familiar with both cities. I'm just saying that the trend of a city losing population while the suburbs expand is not a healthy trend long term.

The population trend in Tulsa also doesn't look too hot when you compare it to, say, OKC in the past decade.
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:35 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 2,203,107 times
Reputation: 2452
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepastorsson View Post
I'm not saying that Tulsa really compares to Detroit, being quite familiar with both cities. I'm just saying that the trend of a city losing population while the suburbs expand is not a healthy trend long term.

The population trend in Tulsa also doesn't look too hot when you compare it to, say, OKC in the past decade.

That trend is one that ended almost a decade ago. According to the US Census Tulsa’s population peaked in 2000 at 392,850 and had fallen to 381,017 by 2005. Tulsa’s population rebounded and was back up to 391,906 in 2010. The 2011 estimates aren’t out yet but it’s nearly certain that Tulsa’s 2011 population will be an all time high.


Oklahoma City and Tulsa’s growth patterns aren’t really comparable either, Oklahoma City is massive with a ton of developable land that in many cases surrounds its own suburbs. Tulsa for the most part is locked in by the suburbs. There’s no way you can tell me that the older parts of Oklahoma City are anywhere near as healthy as central Tulsa/south Tulsa. It’s just not true. Oklahoma City’s growth rate is in no way indicative of a city with a vibrant, healthy and growing core. The innermost few square miles of Oklahoma City might be on the rebound, but that's hardly true for vast the majority of that city's older areas.
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:59 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
181 posts, read 296,233 times
Reputation: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
That trend is one that ended almost a decade ago. According to the US Census Tulsa’s population peaked in 2000 at 392,850 and had fallen to 381,017 by 2005. Tulsa’s population rebounded and was back up to 391,906 in 2010. The 2011 estimates aren’t out yet but it’s nearly certain that Tulsa’s 2011 population will be an all time high.
Well then good! Lol. Glad to hear that trend is already reversing. Seriously. And, I hope to add to Tulsa's population myself next year!

Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
Oklahoma City and Tulsa’s growth patterns aren’t really comparable either, Oklahoma City is massive with a ton of developable land that in many cases surrounds its own suburbs. Tulsa for the most part is locked in by the suburbs. There’s no way you can tell me that the older parts of Oklahoma City are anywhere near as healthy as central Tulsa/south Tulsa. It’s just not true. Oklahoma City’s growth rate is in no way indicative of a city with a vibrant, healthy and growing core. The innermost few square miles of Oklahoma City might be on the rebound, but that's hardly true for vast the majority of that city's older areas.
I agree wholeheartedly that they are very different cities, but I still feel given their geographical closeness (as well as other factors) that comparing the two isn't way out of line. In fact given the fact that Tulsa's "inner city" is generally in great shape only serves to make one even more perplexed as to why it hasn't grown much until recently, as opposed to OKC'S problem with "ring rot" and it's explosive growth.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
242 posts, read 762,337 times
Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
There’s no way you can tell me that the older parts of Oklahoma City are anywhere near as healthy as central Tulsa/south Tulsa. It’s just not true. Oklahoma City’s growth rate is in no way indicative of a city with a vibrant, healthy and growing core. The innermost few square miles of Oklahoma City might be on the rebound, but that's hardly true for vast the majority of that city's older areas.
But the fact is much of OKC's core- particularly the 20+ square miles in 44/235/40 loop- is healthy, growing, and vibrant. The major difference between these two cores is that Tulsa has been so much more segregated that there is little socioeconomic variation within the neighborhoods like you find in OKC. This gives the appearance that south Tulsa is doing better, when really it has just done a better job isolating itself from and forgetting the surrounding city's problems.

This is actually great news for Tulsa because there are far fewer obstacles (slumlords, bad blocks, absentee owners, etc) to doing infill and redevelopment work in south Tulsa neighborhoods than there are in the popular inner northwest neighborhoods of OKC. It also gives Tulsa great demographics for national retailers because its rich white people are so concentrated.

Check out this map by the NY Times based on 2010 Census. Zoom in to the metro areas and you can see data at the Census tract level. Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

Look at the population change map and vacant housing change map. Both confirm that OKC has higher rates of growth than Tulsa in both the central areas and the periphery.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Tulsa, OK
2,572 posts, read 4,232,026 times
Reputation: 2427
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepastorsson View Post
Detroit is a sad tale to tell. It's history should be a required class taken by all mayors of major and up and coming cities.

Did you happen to drive up Jefferson along the river into Grosse Pointe? Talk about jarring! One moment you are in seedy Detroit, nice areas are hit and miss...then you cross a street and are in GP, which is the absolute epitome of an upper-middle to upper class town!
Yes, we did go to Grosse Pointe and took the road along the lake up to I think 11 mile rd? saw a lot of stately mansion and big beautiful houses in GP. There was a park along the lake that had a guard posted and would only let folks in who had memberships. You had to be a GP resident.

And also ate lunch in Hamtramck at a Polish Restaurant. It was some of the best food I had ever had!
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:59 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
181 posts, read 296,233 times
Reputation: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by okie1962 View Post
Yes, we did go to Grosse Pointe and took the road along the lake up to I think 11 mile rd?* saw a lot of stately mansion and big beautiful houses in GP.* There was a park along the lake that had a guard posted and would only let folks in who had memberships.* You had to be a GP resident.

And also ate lunch in Hamtramck at a Polish Restaurant.* It was some of the best food I had ever had!
What's great about the Detroit area is what you mentioned last--there is a lot of cultural diversity, with great places to eat and sights to see going with it. I never did make it into Hamtramck when I lived there, kinda drove all around it and meant to check it out. Little Polish town literally surrounded on 4 sides by Detroit! Of course it's hardly just Polish anymore...

I've drove past that park you mentioned--of course we didn't go in because we weren't GP residents. Lol. Whatever. We lived in Royal Oak when we lived over there and loved it.

If you ever go again, keep driving north through Grosse Pointe until you've almost reached the town of St. Claire Shores, and on your right along Lake St. Claire is the Edsel and Eleanor Ford estate. The tour is breathtaking, particularly this time of year.

We live over on the west side of Michigan right now. Did you see me waiving?
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