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The website tvbythenumbers has 10 half hour Sitcoms (including Family Guy) in their "likely to be renewed category" with only 3 in the top 20 series last year by ratings (The Big Bang Theory, Modern Family, and Two and Half Men). The site has 24 hour long Dramas (including dramas with comic overtones).
NBC has had 19 straight "busts" in a row for sitcoms. A bust is defined as a show that did, or is unlikely to make it on TV for four straight seasons. By this standard Brad Garrett's 'Til Death on FOX, which aired for 81 episodes despite viewership dipping to fewer than 2.5 million by the last season is "not a bust".
NBC sitcom busts
1 ) 27 May, 2010 100 Questions
2 ) 23 Sep, 2010 Outsourced
3 ) 20 Jan, 2011 Perfect Couples
4 ) 14 Apr, 2011 The Paul Reiser Show
5 ) 5 Aug, 2011 Friends with Benefits
6 ) 14 Sep, 2011 Free Agents
7 ) 14 Sep, 2011 Up All Night
8 ) 22 Sep, 2011 Whitney
9 ) 11 Jan, 2012 Are You There, Chelsea?
10 ) 21 Mar, 2012 Bent
11 ) 4 Apr, 2012 Best Friends Forever
12 ) 8 Aug, 2012 Go On
13 ) 12 Aug, 2012 Animal Practice
14 ) 10 Sep, 2012 The New Normal
15 ) 11 Sep, 2012 Guys With Kids
16 ) 17 Dec, 2012 1600 Penn
17 ) 3 Oct, 2013 Welcome to the Family
18 ) 26 Sep, 2013 The Michael J. Fox Show
19 ) 3 Oct, 2013 Sean Saves The World
Prior to that ABC has 20 straight sitcom busts
1 ) 21 Sep, 2004 Rodney
2 ) 13 Mar, 2005 Jake in Progress
3 ) 5 Oct, 2005 Freddie
4 ) 7 Oct, 2005 Hot Properties
5 ) 9 Jan, 2006 Emily's Reasons Why Not
6 ) 12 Jan, 2006 Crumbs
7 ) 7 Mar, 2006 Sons & Daughters
8 ) 26 Sep, 2006 Help Me Help You
9 ) 28 Nov, 2006 Big Day
10 ) 3 Jan, 2007 In Case of Emergency
11 ) 3 Jan, 2007 The Knights of Prosperity
12 ) 12 Apr, 2007 Notes from the Underbelly
13 ) 2 Oct, 2007 Carpoolers
14 ) 2 Oct, 2007 Cavemen
15 ) 15 Oct, 2007 Samantha Who?
16 ) 18 Mar, 2008 Miss Guided
17 ) 6 Jan, 2009 Scrubs (from NBC on last legs)
18 ) 18 Mar, 2009 Better Off Ted
19 ) 26 Mar, 2009 In the Motherhood
20 ) 6 Apr, 2009 Surviving Suburbia
IMO the problem with many sitcoms is that they try to get to the comedy too quickly if that makes sense. They go to broad with their comedy, and until the viewers get to know the characters they aren't going to succeed with that.
Look at the example of The Office:
When the show first started here in America it was all about the mundane day to day of working in an office, a premise that many could identify with. Throughout the first season we got to know the characters. Sure, they were going for comedy and they delivered big laughs, but it didn't feel like they were just going for a joke every 45 seconds with zero regard to the plot.
As the series went on The Office, like most sitcoms, did start going more broad which is sort of necessary because you can't keep producing the same style of show year in and year out, or at least that's the theory.
Now a lot of sitcoms, seem to go for the broader comedy immediately.
I think this is the fault of the networks because they have a cut and run mentality. We have seen shows this season that were cancelled after only TWO EPISODES!
Look at Cheers. Cheers is a show that also started off with a pretty tame premise: People at a neighborhood tavern. The only real stand out characters at first were Sam & Diane, and over 11 years the other characters grew and the comedy got broader. But, if Cheers premiered in 2013 NBC would have never gotten 11 years (or the 11 years of Frasier) because it's initial ratings were so terrible that nowadays NBC would have cancelled it.
I think that network execs look at everything that is out there and assume that Americans have too short of an attention span to actually watch a story and it's characters develop. Meanwhile, we see several examples (like the increased popularity of dramatic shows) that prove this idea false.
But, until the execs come up with a different solution, as opposed to cut & run, then we will keep seeing the formula of New show is immediately on the chopping block, attempts to push out as much comedy as possible in early episodes at the expense of character development, show struggles to get fan base, show is cancelled, new show pops up.
Didn't we already have this topic? My opinion hasn't changed from what I wrote in the first thread.
I think the previous post pointed out that viewership is generally much lower for sitcoms then dramatic or reality shows. I think that is a given because the number of hours devoted to sitcoms out of prime time is miniscule compared to other forms of TV. All five broadcast networks have over 100 hours of prime time TV, of which usually less than 7 is devoted to sitcoms.
I am asking a slightly different question, about this frenetic pace of generating new sitcoms just to cancel most of them. Two decades ago 13 out of the top 20 shows were sitcoms.
It may be the comparatively high salaries paid to actors on long running sitcoms. While a dramatic actor can be paid a lot of money, they produce twice as much commercial time per episode.
It may be more economical to new crappy sitcoms with low paid actors, then to try and sell expensive commercial time to pay actors who get huge paychecks after 4 or 5 years on the air.
May 2012 and May 2013 TV Actress list: Earnings from all sources - developed by Forbes Sofia Vergara: $30 million (comedy)
Kaley Cuoco: $11 million (comedy)
Tina Fey: $10 million (comedy)
Melissa McCarthy: $10 million (comedy)
Cobie Smulders: $9 million (comedy)
Alyson Hannigan: $8 million (comedy)
Amy Poehler: $7 million (comedy)
Zooey Deschanel: $6 million (comedy)
Courteney Cox: $6 million (comedy)
Whitney Cummings: $5 million (part earnings are for production credits) (comedy)
Mindy Kaling: $4 million (comedy)
Mariska Hargitay: $11 million (drama)
Ellen Pompeo: $10 million (drama)
Julianna Margulies: $7 million (drama)
Lena Dunham: $6 million (drama)
Kerry Washington: $3 million (drama)
Kourtney, Kim and Khloe Kardashian (each): $10 million (reality)
Bethenny Frankel: $10 million (reality)
May 2012 and May 2013 TV Actors list: Earnings from all sources - developed by Forbes (1) Ashton Kutcher, $24 million (comedy)
(2) Jon Cryer, $21 million (comedy)
(3) Ray Romano, $16 million (comedy)
(4) Neil Patrick Harris (tie), $15 million (comedy)
(7) Tim Allen (tie), $11 million (comedy)
(7) Angus T. Jones (tie), $11 million (comedy)
(9) Charlie Sheen (tie), $10 million (comedy)
(4) Mark Harmon (tie), $15 million (drama)
(6) Patrick Dempsey, $13 million (drama)
(9) Michael C. Hall (tie), $10 million (drama)
Last edited by PacoMartin; 12-06-2013 at 02:51 PM..
I think the major problem with sitcoms is there's so much commercial time allowed now. Sitcoms have traditionally been half-hour shows, and now there's something like 12 minutes of commercial time allowed out of 30. How can you tell a coherent, well-paced story in 18 minutes?
I think the major problem with sitcoms is there's so much commercial time allowed now. Sitcoms have traditionally been half-hour shows, and now there's something like 12 minutes of commercial time allowed out of 30. How can you tell a coherent, well-paced story in 18 minutes?
I think you are slightly overstating the issue. TBBT shows are normally between 19 and 21.5 minutes long, and some sitcoms are longer.
1 The Hofstadter Insufficiency 21:19
2 The Deception Verification 21:19
3 The Scavenger Vortex 20:48
4 The Raiders Minimization 20:59
5 The Workplace Proximity 19:02
6 The Romance Resonance 20:39
7 The Proton Displacement 19:41
I am asking a slightly different question, about this frenetic pace of generating new sitcoms just to cancel most of them. Two decades ago 13 out of the top 20 shows were sitcoms.
Launching new sitcoms is akin to swinging to hit it out of the ballpark. When they connect they are cash generating machines.
An ad on NCIS(a drama) costs half what it costs on BigBangTheory( a comedy) despite its higher general viewership but the thing is BBT always beats it handily in the 18-49 demographic which is what is prized by advertisers.
I think the previous post pointed out that viewership is generally much lower for sitcoms then dramatic or reality shows. I think that is a given because the number of hours devoted to sitcoms out of prime time is miniscule compared to other forms of TV. All five broadcast networks have over 100 hours of prime time TV, of which usually less than 7 is devoted to sitcoms.
I am asking a slightly different question, about this frenetic pace of generating new sitcoms just to cancel most of them. Two decades ago 13 out of the top 20 shows were sitcoms.
It may be the comparatively high salaries paid to actors on long running sitcoms. While a dramatic actor can be paid a lot of money, they produce twice as much commercial time per episode.
It may be more economical to new crappy sitcoms with low paid actors, then to try and sell expensive commercial time to pay actors who get huge paychecks after 4 or 5 years on the air.
May 2012 and May 2013 TV Actress list: Earnings from all sources - developed by Forbes Sofia Vergara: $30 million (comedy)
Kaley Cuoco: $11 million (comedy)
Tina Fey: $10 million (comedy)
Melissa McCarthy: $10 million (comedy)
Cobie Smulders: $9 million (comedy)
Alyson Hannigan: $8 million (comedy)
Amy Poehler: $7 million (comedy)
Zooey Deschanel: $6 million (comedy)
Courteney Cox: $6 million (comedy)
Whitney Cummings: $5 million (part earnings are for production credits) (comedy)
Mindy Kaling: $4 million (comedy)
Mariska Hargitay: $11 million (drama)
Ellen Pompeo: $10 million (drama)
Julianna Margulies: $7 million (drama)
Lena Dunham: $6 million (drama)
Kerry Washington: $3 million (drama)
Kourtney, Kim and Khloe Kardashian (each): $10 million (reality)
Bethenny Frankel: $10 million (reality)
May 2012 and May 2013 TV Actors list: Earnings from all sources - developed by Forbes (1) Ashton Kutcher, $24 million (comedy)
(2) Jon Cryer, $21 million (comedy)
(3) Ray Romano, $16 million (comedy)
(4) Neil Patrick Harris (tie), $15 million (comedy)
(7) Tim Allen (tie), $11 million (comedy)
(7) Angus T. Jones (tie), $11 million (comedy)
(9) Charlie Sheen (tie), $10 million (comedy)
(4) Mark Harmon (tie), $15 million (drama)
(6) Patrick Dempsey, $13 million (drama)
(9) Michael C. Hall (tie), $10 million (drama)
You keep posting people's salaries but it has no bearing on anything. On top of everything you have their salaries "from all sources" listed. Zooey Deschanel (as one example) may make $6mil/yr but she most likely makes in the $50,000-$75,000 per episode or $1mil-$1.5mil from the show meaning the show isnt that expensive to produce.
The sitcom isn't dead, it's just suffering from a really bad case of overblown adolescence. Too many shows written for a 13-year-old's sense of humor. Too many actors in their 40s trying to play 20 year olds, and with scripts that make the characters do juvenile things that even most 20 year olds would have outgrown.
Also, tv tries too hard to produce shows that would appeal to "everyone." If they aimed at a specific audience, the variety of the comedy might attract more viewers than they think.
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