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Old 12-14-2010, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,591 posts, read 17,461,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chariega View Post
You look like what you look like and that's true--but seriously, as a black person from the U.S. who went to college in Puerto Rico--PR has a complex! A lot of Puerto Ricans I know do not look white in the traditional European sense of white, even those who claim they are. I'm always like, "You ain't white"! Mixed or multiracial probably describe it best. There's nothing wrong with that!
As a black person I agree. I've yet to see a PR in person who looked white like the people I grew up with in VA. Even if they have blond hair something else would set them apart.
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Old 12-14-2010, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,591 posts, read 17,461,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post

And that is kind of the point. She looks European, but what is “European” looking? Her name is Jamila Wideman and she IS African American. Here is a picture of her with her father, famous African-American author John Edgar Wideman.

If I would have said she was Puerto Rican no one would have questioned her nationality. But are Puerto Ricans any different than African Americans? Quickly look at the link to this high school. In the upper right corner of the page you will see images of the school and its students and you would probably think it is a typical inner-city high school with black and hispanic students.

But it is not. It is Charles City High School in rural Virginia. Charles City County is one of the oldest communities in all of the United States and was created just up the road from Jamestown (the oldest permanent English settlement in the United States) in 1619. This county has been around for nearly 400 years and has a small, tight-knit population. Look at these senior year photos from Charles City High if you can keep from laughing at the 1970s and 1980s haircuts! When you look at each of these classes on the social network site, you have to click on the name to see the photos. As you are ROTFL at the hairstyles, ask yourself why for such a small high school, the majority of all of the students only have 10 different last names: Adkins, Bradby, Brown, Charity, Christian, Cotman, Crawley, Crewe, Jones, and Whitehead. These last names (except Brown and Jones) are not particularly common. Why do so many of the students have these last names? If anything else just look at the pictures for the last name Adkins. And the Whiteheads too.
1995
1991
1990
1989
1987
1981
1980
1979
1978
1977
1976
Why is like 10% of every graduating class last named Adkins? They all can't be brothers and sisters, there are too many of them in every grade. Are these Adkins black? Hispanic? Are the people with the last name Whitehead white?

Actually, many of these students (particularly the Adkins) are part of the Chickahominy Indian Tribe. But it is clear that they are not full-blooded Native American, African American, and certainly not European American. Very early on in American history, there was no concept of race and Indians, Africans, and Europeans mixed freely. However, when this mixed race population began to be too large (and thus powerful), in the 1660s Virginia passed laws called slave codes that attempted to keep Africans from intermarrying with whites and Indians. To all new coming Africans it was successful except for those black women who were impregnated by their masters. But for those communities that predate the laws, you can see that the population is racially ambiguous.

This is just like Puerto Rico. Borinquen was an island where all the populations have a high rate of admixture. Had whites in America not passed the slave codes "African" Americans would look very much like Puerto Ricans or all look like these Adkins in the 400 year old Charles City County. But what do you also notice? With the exception of the Whiteheads, there aren't very many "white" looking Charles City High students. But if you look at the students from 1963, Charles City High was completely white. Where did all of the European Americans go?

What Puerto Ricans need to understand, is that no matter how light your skin or eyes, how light or straight your hair, if you have any other ancestry besides European you will not be considered white. Despite all of the people being multiracial and having European last names, almost all of the "white" Charles City High students left after the school integrated because of their disdain for people of mixed race heritage. Notice the white Charles City students don't share the same English last names as the Chickahominy (there is not ONE white Adkins?). As long as Puerto Ricans are on the island, they don't have to choose a race just like these Chickahominy people as long as they stay in Charles City County. But when Puerto Ricans come to the mainland, they will never be accepted as white due to their African and Native American heritage.
Excellent post!! I've been reading about this issue in Colonial Virginia.Race really wasn't an organic concept. Many African men married white women. White and Black indentured servants ran off together.

Fascinating pics for a yearbook, some of the kids look straight up Indian, which you don't expect in VA. Others quite dark.

I used to work with this guy in NYC. He looked straight up African. The Africans would sometimes get mad at him because they thought he was lying about being American and having American parents, grandparents etc. His people came from one of the islands off SC. It appears at least with this family no white or Indian admixture. Which is rare with long settled Black Americans.

He ended up getting married to a white girl and although I could care less normally I was kind of disappointed he didn't keep his bloodline pure, LOL. He was quite the anthropological specimen.
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Puerto Rico
81 posts, read 274,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
As a black person I agree. I've yet to see a PR in person who looked white
Since i have been living in Puerto Rico i have seen alot of "white" people here. Although they are albino's and that is something i have not seen in alot of years back in the states.
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:17 AM
 
Location: Southern California
394 posts, read 1,392,530 times
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I'm more interested in ethnicities than "race". On my mother's side, I'm Hawaiian, Chinese, Filipino and Spanish. On my father's side, I'm Basque, Spanish, Puerto Rican, Taino, African, Cuban, French, and Norwegian. I don't think of myself as white or black, I'm proud to be BROWN
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:25 AM
 
1,995 posts, read 3,098,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExBmWeX View Post
Since i have been living in Puerto Rico i have seen alot of "white" people here. Although they are albino's and that is something i have not seen in alot of years back in the states.
According to what I have read, Puerto Rico has the world's highest incidence of Type I Hermansky-Pudlak Syndrome which leads to a rare and often fatal form of albinism. According to National Institutes of Health estimates, one in 400-2000 people worldwide carry the gene for this syndrome compared to one in 20 Puerto Ricans living in the northwest part of the island. It's very sad.
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:20 PM
 
138 posts, read 290,640 times
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Puerto Ricans for the most part do look strongly European. Many if not most in my experience can pass for southern Europeans, especially in todays world. The truth though is that Puerto Ricans, at least most are highly mixed with strong European genetics.

European genetics the strongest, Spain (Obviously), Portugal, France (especially Corsica), Italy, Maltese, Dutch, British, Scottish, Ireland, Germany, Greece. Due to Colonization, famine, Royal Decree of Graces of 1815, Fransisco Franco, WW1, WW2.

Also very strong are Arabic genes. Mostly from Lebanon and Palestine/Israel, but also Syria, These are highly mixed people as well with strong European genetics.

West Africans brought as slaves which is why you have Black Puerto Ricans. Replaced the Taino.

The Taino Indians (Originally from Venezuela) do play a part in the genetics of most but the ancestry is very distant.

Some Asian (Chinese mostly).

Very interesting people genetically. I think the Arab role is highly downplayed but VERY significant. The people of Puerto Rico resemble strongly those of Lebanon and Palestine.

Palestinian:

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Syria:

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PR:

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Hmmmmmmmmm??? (I figured everyone would rather look at highly attractive women )

Last edited by Yac; 01-09-2014 at 05:37 AM..
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:24 PM
 
686 posts, read 1,572,464 times
Reputation: 156
[quote=R3ALTAWK718;17046246]Puerto Ricans for the most part do look strongly European. Many if not most in my experience can pass for southern Europeans, especially in todays world. The truth though is that Puerto Ricans, at least most are highly mixed with strong European genetics.

European genetics the strongest, Spain (Obviously), Portugal, France (especially Corsica), Italy, Maltese, Dutch, British, Scottish, Ireland, Germany, Greece. Due to Colonization, famine, Royal Decree of Graces of 1815, Fransisco Franco, WW1, WW2.

Also very strong are Arabic genes. Mostly from Lebanon and Palestine/Israel, but also Syria, These are highly mixed people as well with strong European genetics.

West Africans brought as slaves which is why you have Black Puerto Ricans. Replaced the Taino.

The Taino Indians (Originally from Venezuela) do play a part in the genetics of most but the ancestry is very distant.


Wrong about taino ancestry, Taino ancestry is not distant. PR is a very tri racial island.


Quote
Genetic studies
Demographic distribution
Racial distribution - 2000[show]
Island Identity - 2000[show]
Racial distribution - 2006[show]
Ancestral distribution - 2006[show]
A recent study of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from 800 individuals found that patrilineal input, as indicated by the Y chromosome, showed over 70% of Puerto Ricans could trace their ancestry to male European ancestors, 20% could trace it to male African ancestors, and less than 10% could trace it to male Native American ancestors.[15]
As for maternal DNA, 61.1% of those sampled were found as having Amerindian maternal mtDNA. This means that if you could trace back in time from daughter to mother, you would eventually reach women who lived in Puerto Rico in Pre-Columbian time. The rest divides between 26.4% with female African ancestors and 12.5% with female European ancestors.[15]
Both of these findings are consistent with the popular belief from historical record that male European immigrants took for themselves wives from among the native Indian and, later, black slave populations.[16]
Dr. Juan Martinez Cruzado, a geneticist from the University of Puerto Rico Mayagüez who participated in the design of the mDNA study, said accounts of life on Puerto Rico in the 17th and 18th centuries "describe many aspects that are totally derived from Taino modus vivendi, not just the hammocks but the way they fished, their methods of farming, etc....It is clear that the influence of Taino culture was very strong up to about 200 years ago. If we could conduct this same study on the Puerto Ricans from those times, the figure would show that 80 percent of the people had Indian heritage."
[edit]Women in the diaspora
In a study done on Puerto Rican women born on the island but living in New York by Carolina Bonilla, Mark D. Shriver and Esteban Parra in 2004, the ancestry proportions corresponding to the three parental populations were found to be 53.3±2.8% European, 29.1±2.3% West African, and 17.6±2.4% Native American based on autosomal ancestry informative markers. Although autosomal markers tests seem to draw a more broad picture than that of single, gender-based mtDNA and Y-Chromosome tests, the problem with autosomnal DNA is in the archaic cateogries used: "European", "Sub-Saharan African", "East Asian" & "Native American". "Asian" (South, North or East) & "North African" are not included. These generalised categories may not take into account the complexity of migratory patterns across the Old World.
More interesting was to see how much of the population showed any markers of each region. From the women sampled, 98% had European ancestry markers, 87% had African ancestry markers, 84% had Native American ancestry markers, 5% showed only African and European markers, 4% showed mostly Native American and European markers, 2% showed only African markers, and 2% showed mostly European markers.[17]
These findings are consistent with the historical record that the native male Taino population was virtually wiped out shortly after the arrival of the European settlers to the Island.[16]
[edit]
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Old 12-21-2010, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
29,782 posts, read 28,713,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
Overall I would say that PR is one of the only true mixed race countries on the planet (Brazil would be the other), and there has been alot of study on that topic in both countries.
Trinidad is very mixed too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3ALTAWK718 View Post
Hmmmmmmmmm??? (I figured everyone would rather look at highly attractive women )
Good assumption.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 12-21-2010 at 04:07 PM..
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Old 12-21-2010, 06:39 PM
 
138 posts, read 290,640 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondackguy123 View Post
Wrong about taino ancestry, Taino ancestry is not distant. PR is a very tri racial island.


Quote
Genetic studies
Demographic distribution
Racial distribution - 2000[show]
Island Identity - 2000[show]
Racial distribution - 2006[show]
Ancestral distribution - 2006[show]
A recent study of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from 800 individuals found that patrilineal input, as indicated by the Y chromosome, showed over 70% of Puerto Ricans could trace their ancestry to male European ancestors, 20% could trace it to male African ancestors, and less than 10% could trace it to male Native American ancestors.[15]
As for maternal DNA, 61.1% of those sampled were found as having Amerindian maternal mtDNA. This means that if you could trace back in time from daughter to mother, you would eventually reach women who lived in Puerto Rico in Pre-Columbian time. The rest divides between 26.4% with female African ancestors and 12.5% with female European ancestors.[15]
Both of these findings are consistent with the popular belief from historical record that male European immigrants took for themselves wives from among the native Indian and, later, black slave populations.[16]
Dr. Juan Martinez Cruzado, a geneticist from the University of Puerto Rico Mayagüez who participated in the design of the mDNA study, said accounts of life on Puerto Rico in the 17th and 18th centuries "describe many aspects that are totally derived from Taino modus vivendi, not just the hammocks but the way they fished, their methods of farming, etc....It is clear that the influence of Taino culture was very strong up to about 200 years ago. If we could conduct this same study on the Puerto Ricans from those times, the figure would show that 80 percent of the people had Indian heritage."
[edit]Women in the diaspora
In a study done on Puerto Rican women born on the island but living in New York by Carolina Bonilla, Mark D. Shriver and Esteban Parra in 2004, the ancestry proportions corresponding to the three parental populations were found to be 53.3±2.8% European, 29.1±2.3% West African, and 17.6±2.4% Native American based on autosomal ancestry informative markers. Although autosomal markers tests seem to draw a more broad picture than that of single, gender-based mtDNA and Y-Chromosome tests, the problem with autosomnal DNA is in the archaic cateogries used: "European", "Sub-Saharan African", "East Asian" & "Native American". "Asian" (South, North or East) & "North African" are not included. These generalised categories may not take into account the complexity of migratory patterns across the Old World.
More interesting was to see how much of the population showed any markers of each region. From the women sampled, 98% had European ancestry markers, 87% had African ancestry markers, 84% had Native American ancestry markers, 5% showed only African and European markers, 4% showed mostly Native American and European markers, 2% showed only African markers, and 2% showed mostly European markers.[17]
These findings are consistent with the historical record that the native male Taino population was virtually wiped out shortly after the arrival of the European settlers to the Island.[16]
[edit]
It is true that Taino Indians mixed with the majority of the population, however all that DNA data means is that there was someone of that ancestry at some point in time. Taino West indians are a distant ancestor as the last pure Tainos disappeared long ago. European ancestry is the strongest as most obvious by the look of the people with signs of other ancestry in the past.

Despite American race choices on the census according to science there are truly only 3 major race types, Mongoloid (East Asian), Caucasian (White), Negroid (Black). The 3 of these groups can instantaneously be told apart due to specific features. Most PR's are strongly Caucasian with negroid and more distant Mongoloid ancestry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Trinidad is very mixed too.



Good assumption.
The Middle East/North Africa is also an intense mix, old worlds crossroads. Everyone is mixed. Even the Roman Empire was highly mixed on all sides of the Mediterranean. Some people just have more recent mixes, we all come from the same. Race is just used as another excuse to hate one another, like religion and nationalism.

3 MAJOR RACE TYPES:

the Major races are.
Caucasion:
Skull: Dolicephalic(Long-Head),High forehead,Little supraobital development.
Face: Mainly Leptoproscopic( Narrow)Sometimes Meso- or even Euryproscopic, Neither Facial nor alveolar prognathism occurs except among some archaic peoples.
Nose:Long,narrow,high in both root and bridge.

Mongoloid:
Skull: High incidence of Brachycephaly(Short Round Head)
American Indians while Mongoloid are often Dolicephalic.
Foreheads slightly lower than that of the Caucasoid.
No Supraobital development.
Face: Wide and short, projecting cheek bones, Prognathism rare. Shovel shaped incisors common especialy in Asia.
Nose: Mesorine(Low and Broad in both root and bridge.

Negroid:
Skull: usually Dolicephalic, a small minority are Brachycephalic.
Forehead most often high, little supraobital development.
Face: Leproscopic (to a much lesser degree than the Caucasion), Prognathism common in most Negro populations.
Nose: Low & broad in root and bridge with characteristic depression at root.

After this it just divides, and divides, and divides.

Last edited by R3ALTAWK718; 12-21-2010 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 12-21-2010, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,591 posts, read 17,461,394 times
Reputation: 6375
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3ALTAWK718 View Post
It is true that Taino Indians mixed with the majority of the population, however all that DNA data means is that there was someone of that ancestry at some point in time. Taino West indians are a distant ancestor as the last pure Tainos disappeared long ago. European ancestry is the strongest as most obvious by the look of the people with signs of other ancestry in the past.

Despite American race choices on the census according to science there are truly only 3 major race types, Mongoloid (East Asian), Caucasian (White), Negroid (Black). The 3 of these groups can instantaneously be told apart due to specific features. Most PR's are strongly Caucasian with negroid and more distant Mongoloid ancestry.




The Middle East/North Africa is also an intense mix, old worlds crossroads. Everyone is mixed. Even the Roman Empire was highly mixed on all sides of the Mediterranean. Some people just have more recent mixes, we all come from the same. Race is just used as another excuse to hate one another, like religion and nationalism.

3 MAJOR RACE TYPES:

the Major races are.
Caucasion:
Skull: Dolicephalic(Long-Head),High forehead,Little supraobital development.
Face: Mainly Leptoproscopic( Narrow)Sometimes Meso- or even Euryproscopic, Neither Facial nor alveolar prognathism occurs except among some archaic peoples.
Nose:Long,narrow,high in both root and bridge.

Mongoloid:
Skull: High incidence of Brachycephaly(Short Round Head)
American Indians while Mongoloid are often Dolicephalic.
Foreheads slightly lower than that of the Caucasoid.
No Supraobital development.
Face: Wide and short, projecting cheek bones, Prognathism rare. Shovel shaped incisors common especialy in Asia.
Nose: Mesorine(Low and Broad in both root and bridge.

Negroid:
Skull: usually Dolicephalic, a small minority are Brachycephalic.
Forehead most often high, little supraobital development.
Face: Leproscopic (to a much lesser degree than the Caucasion), Prognathism common in most Negro populations.
Nose: Low & broad in root and bridge with characteristic depression at root.

After this it just divides, and divides, and divides.
That's all good and well but in the pics of the beautiful women above they don't look white in the American sense.
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